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Re: Emigration to South Africa-Look before you leap!

Emigration to South Africa-Look before you leap!
August 26, 2004 11:31AM
Anonymous User
To all contemplating emigrating to South Africa
my informed advice is to visit the country first,have a good look around and then take a final decision.
It is undoubtedly a beautiful Country.But bear in mind some of the following points:-
(l) The crime rate in many parts of South Africa
has escalated alarmimgly over the past few years.
Murders,Rapes.Robberies (including carjackings in
which the victims vehicle is taken and in some cases the victim is killed)are regular occurences.
In particular the beachfront in Durban and even the centre of the City has become a "danger Zone"
in which crime is rife.
So much so that many of the citizens who previously lived in those areas have moved into the suburbs which are still relatively safe.Also
there is a growing development of exclusive self-
contained "Estates" where the houses are contained
within high security fences with instant response
armed guards available.These areas are essentially self-contained with shopping malls and golf courses.These are O.K. for the present-but do you seriously want to live in a "prison" even if it takes the form of a gilded cage????

(2) The ANC Government has introduced legislation to promote the policies of Affirmative Action.
In other words persons categorised as "disadvantaged" are given preference regarding Job applications-even though they may not be the
best qualified to do the job.
This cannot make for a sound economy.The rand is
currently a very weak unit of currency as it is.

(3) The gap between the very poor and the (obscenely) rich grows wider by the day,
The Government despite 10 years of ANC Rule have
failed to deliver fully on their initial undertakings to provide proper housing and associated utilities to the mass of the population who still live in dire poverty.Poverty is no doubt a major factor in the proliferation of crime.

(4) H.I.V/Aids has become a serious problem in
South Africa-this saps the well-being of masses of
people leading to a miserable and premature death.

(5) Road safety is questionable The death toll caused by road carnage is frightening.Many cars are unlicensed and non-roadworthy.Some Taxis are
particularly "lethal" in this context.

(6)It is reported that countless persons from other African States have headed for the "greener pastures" of South Africa.Whether these persons
have residence permits may be debatable.Some
claim to be refugees.The question to be asked is are they genuine refugees?
South Africa has such a wide border that with the best will in the world it is almost impossible to
control it fully.
The influx of "foreign" Africans is reported to cause resentment amongst indigenous South Africans as this deprives them of job opportunities when the newcomers get the jobs.

(7) "Land Grabs" do not seem to be a current issue
although there have been attacks on a number of farms -not quite yet the mirror image of Zimbabwe.
Also there has been some growing concern that
"foreigners" are coming to South Africa and buying up much of the property -to the detriment of local people.

(8 If you have young children check out the quality of the available Educational facilities.
These are reported to be very variable.

Although it is impossible to predict the long term
future of South Africa all responsible parents
should ask themselves whether there will be the likelihood of a positive future for their children there.That I suggest should be one of the
principal "Acid tests" to be applied.
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Moving To South Africa
September 15, 2004 02:54AM
Anonymous User
I'm an American thinking of moving to South Africa. Noting that all place have bits of both heaven and hell, I have thought of moving over, starting a tourism business and contributing something to South Africa.
Does the government/ANC encourage emigration? I have researched New Zealand and while they encourage degree holders to move there, they make the process Byzantine and costly. Is Pretoria any better at this?

Cheers,
Tony
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A few questions about S.A.
October 10, 2004 11:54PM
Anonymous User
Hi, Cassandra, I am writing from South America. I am travelling to SA next november, for just about a week, invited by an european foundation.
I have to admit I don't know much about South Africa, so I was wondering if you would write to me to let me know about the weather, the money exchange and the best and safest ways to visit it. I have been doing my homework at Internet and I have found it to be, in fact, a very beautiful place, so I would like to have an idea of how to seize my time there.
I will be in an specific town, but I think I can take a few days to travel to another areas of the country, so i have been thinking about Johannesburg and Soweto. ¿What do you think?
Anyway, thanks for tour time.

Sincerely,
W.
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Pessimistic
October 21, 2004 10:07PM
Anonymous User
I have to say Cassandra, you send out a very bleak image of a beautiful country with bucket loads of potential! You seem to forget that not all areas are high in murders etc and that south africa is one of the most exciting and attractive places to live. The people are very friendly, the culure is rich, food good and lifestyle desirable. Every country has its bad points but we try not to focus on them all of the time.
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Re: Pessimistic
November 10, 2009 07:32AM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
Cheers for that! So refreshing :-)
I am returning to SA after a 9 year traveling stint.
I am dismayed at the concerns of my colleagues and friends. They really have no idea!
Yes, the crime is rife. Just be aware and don't be silly.
I lived in London for 6 years, and almost everyone I met had been affected by crime in one way or another. Some were seriously assaulted.Not to mention the number of bikes my brother had pinched. He was a courier, and those bikes were his livelihood. I myself, suffered a burglary in Maida Vale in London.
All I can do is invite the naive over for a holiday to see the beauty and hospitality of a rainbow nation, and of course, the big five, for themselves.
Also wanted to thank Annetta in Durban for the Kloof / Hillcrest advice. My Dad lives in Hibberdene, and I need to be close to him and near a city for work.
Take care everyone, and give our lovely country a chance
Jules
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Moving to South Africa
October 30, 2004 06:09AM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
I moved to South Africa from the U.K. 9 years ago and South Africa is a great place to live.

The education is excellent my son is 11 years old and in a Private School it has excellent facilities and there are 19 in his class, he is receiving a far better education than he would in the U.K. the cost is 2000 Rand per month.

Crime, HIV and so on are a problem but we live in an ordinary house with no fences and have no big issues.

Health care is also first class much better than the U.K.

Unemployment is a big problem 60 per cent in Port Elizabeth, this increase to 80 per cent in the Townships.

We started a tour business to show overseas people what a wonderful country it is. Our township tour are particularly well received and overseas visitors are always impressed to see the improvements that have been made in the past few years.

To obtain a residency permit to start a business is quite straightforward it requires a business plan approved by a Chartered Accountant we used KPMG and a plan to invest 2.5 million rand in the country which can include your house. One of the Government agencies will then assist with the formalities in our case the Eastern Cape Development Corporation who were excellent.

Please come and join us the more people that are prepared to invest and assist in the marketing of the country the quicker it will improve.
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PS
October 30, 2004 06:11AM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
In response to road safety buy a Land Rover
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Experience
November 07, 2004 05:15PM
Anonymous User
Hello all, I have travelled most of Africa, including Indian and Atalantic Coasts, Central and North Africa - incidentally I was born in Johannesburg.

I have lived in the UK for 16 Years and I'm moving back in February. The answer to all your questions is 'do your homework'. Whatever Countryyou are moving to be aware of all the financial, social and cultural issues. Once you are aware you are better equipped to make an 'informed ecision'. Knowing all the risks is safer for you and your family. Then you can feel comfortable whilst you enjoy all the benefits. Simple logic. The one thing I will recommend is to purchase currency 'ahead of schedule'. If you dont know what I'm talking about then you havent even begun to do your homework. You are moving there for a reason, justify. Good luck to all and see you on the East Coast.
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SA is great
November 08, 2004 03:03PM
Anonymous User
Cassandra's posting over emphasis and exagerates the crime situation in SA. The information about land grabs in South Africa is also very inaccurate and does not hold much truth. Also the information about Affirmative Action is very inaccurate as it does not encourage un skilled or less qualified persons to obtain jobs in the placeof qualified persons. The truth is that most key positions are still held and filled by white males.

The truth is that South Africa is a great country and it holds a lot of opportunity for all its citizens and residents.
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Crime
November 10, 2004 01:29PM
Anonymous User
Yster, Please tell me why South Africa has such a high crime rate compared to the rest of the world. If it is so high surely living there will expose yourself to the high stats.

I think Cassandra's posting was very informative. All her points are real issues in South Africa.

The truth with affirmative action is that the best person does not always get the job and this happens most of the the time.
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South Africa or Canada?
December 28, 2004 04:25PM
Anonymous User
Hello,
I am researching about Canada and South Africa. I am actually thinking about moving to either one of them. The trouble is i am confused and would love to hear your informed advice. Please feel free to send me a mail and tell me what you know about either of the Countries. Thanks. Happy New Year
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Canada-no contest!!!!
December 29, 2004 12:41PM
Anonymous User
Read Cassandra's informed and realistic entry (above).Unless you have a death wish, go to Canada!
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Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
I thought Canada was rather a cold place to live.

South Africa is wonderful, great weather great people and an excellent place to live.

We moved here 10 years ago from the U.K. and the improvements are easy to see, there has been a huge provision of houses, 90 % of the population has access to clean water, a huge improvement.

The Government is stable and sensible and the economy is improving, sales of new cars are at record levels.

The Eastern Cape where I live is surrounded by wonderful Game Reserves all opened within the last 10 years, encouraging tourists to visit and providing much needed employment.

There are problems here of course unemployment being one of the biggest issues 60% in Port Elizabeth which rises to 80% in the Townships.

We need people to come and join us to help us provide more jobs and allow this wonderful country grow and improve further.
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moving
January 13, 2005 10:25AM
By sean
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 4
Does anyone know what are the requirements for emigrating if you are married to a south african citizen.

My girlfriend and I are considering moving there (she is SA citizen on a UK student visa)in a few years time once we are settled properly, and once we are there starting a business up.

Is the whole process a lot easier if you can get in the backdoor as it were?
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Emigrating to SA
January 26, 2005 03:08PM
Anonymous User
Hi there,

I have been reading some of the comments on this forum about emigrating, buying houses and living in SA with interest. I am interested in emigrating over to SA and would like to know who you would recommend to help in the emigration process? I understand that there are emigration consultants that will help with the process of moving there.

Also I have been told that there are a number of ways to get your money over there. I have spoken to my bank who seem to be offering a poor exchange rate and I have been told that there are specific currnecy brokers who can help.

Does anyone have any experience of these?

Thanks

Marc
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Worth the effort South Africa is great
January 26, 2005 04:12PM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
To get a residence permit I know of five options.

1. Have a skill not available in South Africa use it to get a job offer and get the employer to motivate the application.

2. Invest more than 2.5 million rand and start your own business. The 2.5 can include the value of a house you purchase.

3. Have an income of more than 20,000 rand and retire, this can be less if you buy a house, but you are not supposed to work..

4. Marry a South African.

5. Bribe someone.

There are agents available that probably know how to handle 4 and 5.

To want to move you are probably in 1-3 category so it is not so difficult. We have the Eastern Cape Development Corporation in our area and they will help for free.

To get cash into South Africa is really easy. Open a South African bank account lots of paper but not difficult. Write a cheque from an overseas bank account and pay it in, or send via the internet. Easy.

Worth all the effort South Africa is great
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Is this REALLY possible?
January 27, 2005 11:20AM
By JC
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 3
I've been dreaming of coming to South Africa for years (10 years to be exact). I first came to SA to document SA's first democratic election and I've been in love with the country ever since. I'm also already well versed in the views of South Africa as portrayed by Cassandra, which are true but alas do not paint a FULL PICTURE. South Africa can be a great place to live and it can also be a BITCH. That's Life!

Anyway I'm black, british professional male (digital photography) and married to another black british professional female (corporate journalism) and we would love to set-up a business (Public Relations, Corporate Communications) in South Africa. For the last few years all I've been hearing is that people like me and my wife will NOT be welcomed in South Africa by the Home Affairs Department (and others) and we'd be better advised looking for opportunities else where. Is this STILL the case? PS: By the sound of theing I really like what's going on in PE, especially those nice people making AC Cobra's! What a way to make a living!
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"Is this really possible?"
January 28, 2005 01:22PM
Anonymous User
Hi JC.
People like you and your wife would contribute a great deal to the development of South Africa.
However you are no doubt aware that despite the great strides made since 1994 the majority of the indigenous black population have not benefitted economically.A few have made small fortunes.
As a result of the widespread poverty there is an escalating scale of crime which tends to destabilise the country.
In my view successful black immigrants to South Africa can engender a great deal of resentment
among the unemployed and impoverished black population of South Africa.
They see the chances of employment diminishing by the day-assuming they are actively searching for work-when newcomers arrive and achieve success-fuelling the resentment.
In the long term you probably would do a lot better in South Africa.
Climate is far better than in the U.K.
The U.K. is virtually on its last legs with the present "non-government".
It is being flooded with immigrants-legal and illegal- who are only hell-bent on bleeding the Country dry by claiming benefits at the tax-payers
expense-with no intention whatsoever of getting
work.
The decision is yours-I wish you and your wife all the best!
Big Boy Freddy "Mugu" Majola
"Mugu" by name but not "Mugu" by nature!
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Come and join us
January 28, 2005 04:18PM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
This is not the country I live in.

South Africa is a land of opportunity.

People that can improve the country are desperately needed and encouraged to join us.

It is a wonderful country with a great future.

Come and join us.
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Return of the Natives
January 28, 2005 08:17PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 6
Yo Big Boy Freddy and Colin,

Thank you for your kind support and encouragement. My wife thanks you guys too. One day we will all met and have a lamb braai on US.

I've been to South Africa several times and hand on my heart I've never encounter any resentment from my black South African brothers and sisters. In fact "they" both black and white South Africans tend to view me as a bridge to their two very differnt worlds. I have no problems crossing this divide and making connections. Alas this does not apply to South Africa's (mostly illegal), newly arrived African immigrants, especially those from Nigeria and Zimbabwe. I seem to rub these people up the wrong way, as they do me. Now I don't want to be controversial but these people really don't have any right to be in South Africa. Why! Well by what I can see most of those new arrivals have come to South Africa with the sole intention of doing to SA what they have already done to their home countries. This MUST not be allowed to happen. My critism of black (as well as white) Zimbabweians is even harsher. They should go back home and sort things out, instead of living the life of Reilly at the South African tax payers expense.JC
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Re: Return of the Natives
August 18, 2009 12:29AM
By mae17
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
In response to the topic Return of the natives dated Jan 28, I found that some of the issues were totally unfounded and controversial . First of all Zimbabweans and Nigerians are not 'new immigrants' to South Africa. I know there has been a surge of immigrants from these co,untries but they being Africans living in Mamaland cannot be classified as 'New immigrants'. These people have always been there since the apartheid era and some of their statesman helped us through the dark times. Yes there are some who are illegal and I must say corruption and ill gorvenance are to blame for this . I blame our government for being unable to sort this mess and for failing to return the favour and working together with the Zimbabwean government solve their problems. The thread led me to believe that this view posted of my fellow Africans and I say this because I view every African as a brother (black or white) was motivated purely by selfish reasons. I have lived with some well educated and uneducated Zimbabweans who by the way were not illegal immigrants and I dont think its fair to generalise and for you to to decide how we deal with some of our brothers. If you want to come to South Africa you are welcome but we would appreciate it if you didnt meddle with Africans, affairs if you really wanted to we would suggest you gey your facts right and suggest some solutions to benefit all of Africa for 'SOUTH AFRICA IS NOT AN ISLAND it is a part of AFRICA'. Again we welcome everybody to our country who intends to contribute something positive and not cause unnecessary division amongst people. South Africa is a lovely country it does have its issues but then again which country doesnt. We hope our government will work hard to sort them out especially with the world cup coming
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Desperate to LEAVE South Africa ...
February 10, 2005 10:26AM
By jay
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 4
Cassandra is not pessimistic - in fact, she is almost too positive about the situation in SA.

If you're stinking rich - you can live an OK life here. You can send your children to the best private schools; be admitted to private hospitals; you can drive a bullet-proof car; you can live in an electric-fenced complex with armed response; and you still have plenty money for entertainment.

However that is the life of a limited few. To afford above lifestyle, you would need to earn in excess of R50 000 per month (take into account that the government will take 42% of that for tax). (For salary comparison: A teacher earns about R5000 per month, an IT professional with 10 years experience can earn about R25000. A private school costs about R4000 per month per child. The cheapest house you can find in a "safe" area (but without the security) is about R8000 per month. Food for a family of 4 costs about R3000 a month. In a city like Cape Town, petrol can cost about R2000 a month. And that's not counting insurance, medical aid, clothing, etc. You do the math.)

For the rest of us - we live in fear. Government schools are riddled with gangs (children as young as 8 using drugs and guns) and very low academic standard; carjackings, break-ins, robberies and rapes happen so frequently that most of them don't even make news; affirmative action is very real - my husband applied for so many jobs, and the answer is always "Sorry, this is an affirmative action job" (so how on earth will my two sons ever get a job in SA?); and then there's the hate: there is so much hate in the country and you see it in so many people's eyes - and it's really scary! Life is meaningless here - people murder just for 1 cigarette, or to use your body parts for medicine etc. The roads are such a mess because of taxis that are unroadworthy and drive soooooo badly - and you're scared to hoot, because you might just get shot, or beaten with a baseball bat (seriously). And don't get me started on the AIDS issue!

I can't wait to finally scrape together enough money to emigrate.
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Response to the deluded pessamists!!
February 11, 2005 05:14PM
By laura
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 4
I cannot believe what I am reading!! This is such an utter over exaggeration of the state of south africa. Yes there are gangs as there are in the us and uk. Yes there are murders as there are in every country in the world but if everyone lived in fear no-one would do anything especially if that fear is unfounded.

As a young white female I have experienced several aspects of south african life. I lived with a coloured family for 7 months and was truly accepted into their family and treated as one of the family. I attended Harold Cressy High school for part of the time I was there and was never treated differently from anyone else. The family I lived with didn't live inside an electric fence of have guns. They were a normal family and I love them all dearly. I never once had any problems. I lived with a white lady too for a short time which was different but was also very nice.

One of the best experiences of my life was when I lived for some time with a family in Guguletu, Cape town. I used to walk around to my friends house with the girls I lived with and although people were surprised to see a white girl walking around they were all extremely friendly and nice to me and stopped to talk to me. I constantly had people coming and saying thank-you for coming to stay in their community because they get such bad press and no-one wants to visit. I was given a xhosa name by the family and have never in my life experienced such community spirit. These poeple are loving warm caring human beings not the mad, hateful race that you are trying to depict.

I simply cannot understand your logic. I come from a very small community in scotland and it has it's fair share of problems to with muggings and thefts etc. If you let the small problems in life affect you too much you cannot appreciate the world for the beautiful exciting place that it is. I have a thirst for meeting people from different counties and experiencing the ways people live and I'll never feel too scared to come back to south africa.

And as for R3000 a month on food, what do you eat?!?!?!?!
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Come and join us and make your own mind up
February 11, 2005 05:41PM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
South Africa is a great place to live of course there are problems it is part of the world’s poorest continent.

Education, health care has to be paid for and is expensive , the wonderful weather is free.

Before you emigrate here you have to work out where your money will come from, which is like moving anywhere else in the world.

Wages here are ½ t0 1/3 of the level in the U.K. so getting a job will not help much.

Many of us live in South Africa part time and earn our livings elsewhere and then it is a truly wonderful place to live.

There are many, many people moving here wondering what all the fuss about problems is all about.
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Rose tinted glasses!
February 11, 2005 05:56PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 6
Let's not go all overboard now! South Africa is beautiful place and all of it's people are exceptional in their warmth and kindness. But anywhere, where you find beauty so will you find it's opposite...ugliness and inhumanity. Two weeks ago I heard a story (via Radio 702 in the internet) about a bloke from Pretoria who had repeatedly raped his daughters, throughout their young lives. A true sicko if ever there was one but the sad fact is that this can and does happen all over the world, all the time. What SA has to do is to confront all of it's demons and defeat them...one by one. Looking at the world through rose tinted glasses, helps no one. JC
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Confused
February 23, 2005 03:44PM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
Sorry I have lost the thread.

What has the sick story in Pretoria got to do with some one coming to live in South Africa.

There are some very very sad things happen in the U.K.
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Republika!
February 23, 2005 07:32PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 6
That was my point ......Colin. Bad things happen all over the world. The real question should be, how as a society we deal with it. Don't get me wrong but nothing is going to stop me from coming to South Africa, not hell or high water but alas it will stop many and that's something we should all be concerned about. John
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Wish you would hurry up and leave
March 16, 2005 09:35AM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
Desperate to leave South Africa, well we would be better off without people like you, I don't know how your calculator works but your figures are all wrong. You need to change your attitude and start attracting more positive influences in your life. We are not rich, our kids go to a Government school and we live a lovely life with many friends and outdoor hobbies. R50 000 would buy you a very indulgent lifestyle which is above the norm, but many who are not willing to make an effort begrudge the people who are prepared to work and as Gary Player once said when he got a hole in one and a comment was passed "you were lucky" his response was "it's funny, but the more I practice the luckier I get". So the people who work harder and smarter deserve all they have! You also choose the area you live in and the way your children turn out - if they have a well adjusted, loving home and good principals, they will always choose the better options. The hate you see in people's eys is a reflection of your own soul and views on humanity. I hope when you leave this country you don't polute your chosen country of residence with your negativity and please don't mention you are South African.

To all prospective immigrants, welcome, we will show you the real life in SA. Remember - the potential in any Country is unlimited if you come with the right attitude!! We look forward to welcoming you.
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Always in my heart
March 18, 2005 04:01AM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
After almost 2.5 years in Boston, USA I can truly say that my heart will always be in Africa. If you only focus on the negative things - that is all you will see (as Cassandra and Jay) clearly indicates. I spent Christmas04 in SA (ahhh sun and sea and braaivleis!)and its not so gloomy - SA's economy is doing very well, in fact most of our economic indicators (including our currency) is good. South Africans have HEART! We care about our country and its place in the world. We care about all our people - especially the poor and previously disadvantaged. We care about our natural environment - we believe in dialogue between nations not war! We also know how to laugh at ourselves and live our best lives. Our family has lived in Europe and the USA - and we will be returning within the next year to SA- it is our home and it is our people. Africa is not for "sissies". It's tough, nothing will be handed to you (especially if you're white) - however if you can make it in Africa you can make it anywhere. For the moaners and groaners "shape up or shut up!" - and Colin - good on ya mate! - for defending your adoptive country so persistently! We need more people like you!
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looking forward to living in SA
March 18, 2005 08:38PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
thankyou to those providing and contributing to this forum, it certainly has made my decision a lot easier. I am a 39yo Australian and met my now wife Katerina about 6 years ago in Melbourne, Australia (Oz). Katerina had migrated to Oz with her family from SA in early 1998. The family migrated to Oz due to conditions in SA at the time and to give the family a safe place to live and bring up the children. The family had lived in SA for 40+ years. The family bought a hotel in Oz and then I met Katerina late 1998. In 2002 Katerina and I married.

Unfortunately the family found doing business in Oz very tough compared to SA. Our taxes are higher, our workplace employment conditions tougher, much higher wage costs and general cost of living requirements all factored on them and in the end the family sold up and took the big step and moved back to Johburg SA in 2002. Katerina stayed in Oz with me.

The family has since flourished in SA after buying a business and rebuilt their lives and lifestyle they were accustomed to. They of course missed their daughter Katerina dearly but Katerina knew I had no intentions of ever leaving Australia and accepted that, especially as I was your typical foreigner with a safe, comfortable life in my own country and had heard so much about crime, poverty, being a minority and white etc in SA.

In 2004 we got pregnant and is amazing how a little baby can make you rethink your whole life. (we are actually due next week smiling smiley

I suddenly found myself thinking about family. My own family unfortunately very disfunctional and spread all across Oz, with none in Melbourne. I wanted to give bubs a "close family" upbringing with grandparents etc. My problem was those that could give us that were in SA. I started seriously researching....

After months of reading and researching SA, I surprised Katerina at Xmas 2004 and asked her if she would consider moving back to SA. Well you could imagine the joy as she had thought I'd never ever leave safe ol' Oz. We then asked her parents in Johburg what they thought...and if it really was safe and economically viable etc...well the future grandparents were overwhelmed with joy and explained that since they moved back to SA that things were fantastic, business was booming and there was nothing (bar the obvious precautions) to worry about.

So the decision was set and over the last 3 months we have been selling up and we will be in SA in July, once bubs is born and old enough to travel. My fear has slowly turned into excitement, and as my wife has lived in SA all her life (bar the last 6 years) she has been preparing me on living in SA, the good, the bad and ugly and the beatiful. (i actually even listen to 702 radio over the internet now when i on the PC smiling smiley

We are no strangers to travel, for our honeymoon we back packed Europe for 6 months. That is what opened my eyes to the world..

Yes I know there is high crime in SA...but there was a carjacking in Melbourne last week, we also have a pretty big drug gangland war happening at the moment with i think 26 murdered from this war over the last few years..and this is safe ol' Melbourne. Any big city has crime, but I do understand the difference in SA it can be very violent random crime...but it is getting better from what I've researched. I accept that risk and that there are ways to minimise it happening to your family. Also, did you know Washington USA has a 50% higher crime rate than Johburg?? You only ever hear the bad from the news...very rarely will all the good stuff make the headlines.

Financially, after selling our assets and one of our businesses here we'll be able to buy a business in SA. Katerina's father assures me that it would only take 2-3 years to get to the same position in SA as it would take 10+ years in Australia. Mainly due to better taxes in SA as well as lower and more flexible employment costs etc (in Australia I currently pay 50c in the $1 tax sad smiley due to my supposidly high tax bracket). We have another small self running business that we will keep in Oz...just in case I need a backstop smiling smiley and to produce some additional foriegn $$ income.

Probably the last thing is that I think I can make a difference in SA, to try and help SA reach its potential. In Oz I feel I can not make much of a difference here, just plod along with life. In SA I would like to help and be part of the process of change. I feel I have skills to offer and charitable ideas to pursue. I would like to see, and help in the change, that by the time my children are old enough that SA is well on the way to be as enticing to live in as foriegners find Oz to be.

Didn't mean it to be such a long post, but I want to give back some thoughts in repayment of the comfort and info this site has helped provide me. Thanks and cheers
Rob
 Reply  Quote
 
Welcome to South Africa
March 19, 2005 03:21AM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
Excellent decision, the prospects in South Africa are very exciting.

However be extremely careful about the business you buy, there are lots of people out there targeting foreigners with hard currency,also be very wary of the banks and take great care before signing any sureties.
 Reply  Quote
 
Thankyou Colin
March 19, 2005 05:19AM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
thanks Colin for the advice and appreciate. Katerina's family runs a successful business already and we are going to buy another one in the same industry, probably in partnership with Katerina's father, so all should be pretty straight forward. If it wasn't for the family connection there, this whole venture would be a lot scarier and doubtful. I am looking forward to the new start...
 Reply  Quote
 
Holiday to stay?
August 26, 2005 08:11AM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
My partner is from SA, and this winter (summer over there!!) we are going to go for a holiday. Although ive heard and read about the crime rate, and even experienced it second hand, I'm just as eager to go. Ive heard that it is one of the most beautiful countries in the world, and cannot wait to experience it for myself. After my visit, I shall conclude in my own thoughts as to whether of not I would like to live out there. Colin, could you give some advice as to what to look for when Im out there that might help me make a decision, as I dont want to waste my time out there.
 Reply  Quote
 
Come and join us
August 26, 2005 09:52AM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
It is without doubt one of the most beautiful countries in the world.

I think the biggest problem is making a decent living which is not so easy, but things improve all the time, the economy is really taking off.

New car sales for example are at there highest levels ever.

We also have 340 + days of sunny weather.

It will be an easy decision to make.

Let me know if you need any help
 Reply  Quote
 
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 5
hey,Im Jerilyn a 16 yr. old female. Now over the past like 4 yrs. my granddad has had south africans come over and work for him at the carnival. now from what they tell me about SA it's a beautiful country!! Yeah Im sure it has its ups and downs but honstly what country doesnt? Come on now you can not sit here and bull shit on how your country is soo damn aweful and is growing with HIV and AIDS. I mean yeah Africa in genral has hiv and aids but Im from the USA and every 10 secs. or 10 mins. (some crap like that) 1 in like 3 (I think) teenagers gets infected with hiv or aids. So come on take a look around you besides your country hiv and aids are every where. Drugs, Gangs,and Violence is every where not just there you know. I mean I have lived in some places you couldnt surrive in for 24 hrs., I have lived in Chi-Town aka Chicago, Ive lived in Gary,In and trust me they have good parts but they also have bad parts with a higher crime rate then other places around me. My mom was murdered in a really nice well respected area. So theres a point right there. Yeah my South Africans have said you know this place is pretty bad this place is really nice in SA. But they still love their country. Lots of them want to go home they cant wait to go home, but that was their attitude towards the end of their visas, now when they first arrive, their taking pictures of everything and anything and they love it here they never want to go home, but Ill tell you what after a while they got board yeah well I dont blame them they came to see America and all they see is parking lots,I mean they could go out afterwards, but who wants to go out at 12:00 am and be up the next day at 11:00 am to work again, trust me the public isnt very nice especally when your labled as a "CARNIE", here in America thats not to nice of a name to be called I know I get called it still to this day. I love my country you may say yeah well your an Amercian you have this you have that, but trust me I have worked for everything I have. Yes theres some jobs that are easy pay such as the carnival, but then you have jobs where you really have to bust your ass in order to get anywhere, especially if you didnt graduate high school or go to college. Its expensive here to live just like everywhere else but I'll tell you what, we were just hit by hurricane katrina and that right there is making gas prices go way way up like to $3.75 a gallon by summer it will be $5.00 per gallon or more, intrestes rates are going up, not to mention many people were left homeless, many died, and many dont have insurance to cover any of the damage put yourself in their shoes and try to picture losing your home,family,everything youve worked for, yeah it may be a weather problem and not murder but its still the fact that you should honor love and charish your country till the day you die no matter what country it may be. Yeah go visit other countries if you want to I know I will Ill probley end up living in SA myself but hey what can I say I love my South Africans also known as my babies.
 Reply  Quote
 
Affirmatively F"d
October 02, 2005 03:26PM
By fcg
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
The problem exists if you are a white person who should be in a senior position. There is no chance of getting a position which would be a match for your skills. Those white males in positions are holding on for dear life, as they know they cannot move onwards/upwards in South Africa.

Also the
>information about Affirmative Action is very
>inaccurate as it does not encourage
>un skilled or less qualified persons
>to obtain jobs in the placeof
>qualified persons. The truth is that
>most key positions are still held
>and filled by white males.
 Reply  Quote
 
Affirmative action
October 03, 2005 12:38AM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
Agree it is very difficult, but action has to be taken the previous situation was also unacceptable. It is not a great place for a white male if you want a traditional career in a large company.

My plan has been to start my own business we sell tours to overseas clients direct over the internet.

At the moment I can’t see how we can be caught by affirmative action, we are encouraging visitors to spend there Dollars, Euro’s and Pounds in South Africa, which benefits all of us.
 Reply  Quote
 
Fight to save a great country
October 16, 2005 11:04PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
I may be a little ignirant to the REAL situation in South Africa but here is my opinion:

I am a born and raised South African from Jo'burg. I live in the US against my own personal preference. My father felt it was best for us to leave at the end of 95 when I was 15. I had no choice but to leave.

I am now 24 and have a degree in Chem. Eng. and 2 years work experience so I am finally feeling like maybe I am independant enough to at least consider my options of moving back one day.

My heart aches every day I wake up longing to be back in a country that I love more than anything.

True, things have deteriorated but seem to have improved. The Rand has gained strength and may not be as strong as it once was a little over a decade but at least is not 10 - 1 to the dollar any more.

Has anyone posting these messages ever been to Harlem? I am not sure if you are aware that Harlem is in Manhatten New York. Harlem is extremely dangerous, has gangs and drugs and killings everywhere and yet Manhatten is supposed to be paradise for the rich and famous in New York. Get my point!

Anyway, I would love to consider my options for moving back so if anyone has advice please help!
 Reply  Quote
 
Fight to Save a great Country.
December 06, 2005 02:12PM
By Marfona
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 3
Dear Springbokke.
I note your reservations regarding return.However as you say there is always potential violence in any Country you may choose to live.
Personally I have no problem with SA.In the main I visit Durban .I together with my dear Nephew
Louis "Lunchbox" Phillippe organise Skinny
Dipping Functions periodically-by day and night.There have never been any problems.
We have had some back- up with the "Gentle Enforcement" Team of Abiola.
If you are interested in Skinny Dipping we would love you to join with us.The next Function is to be organised fairly early in the New Year.
We are presently seeking to persuade one of the "Good and Great" in the Ethekwini Metropolitan
Body to take the lead!
I will be letting all those who may be interested
have full details nearer the time.
Check out:- http://www.geocities.com/ummeli2000/mypage.html!
God Bless,
Madam Primrose Marfona.
 Reply  Quote
 
Come on in the Water's fine!
December 07, 2005 02:53PM
By Marfona
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 3
Ethekwini is safe and great for swimming!
http://www.geocities.com/ummeli2000/mypage.html
Live it up a little in Durbs.
Weather today was a comfortable 23 degrees C.
 Reply  Quote
 
Moving
January 24, 2006 10:11AM
By morin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
My family and I have just returned to Spain from the most wonderful month in SA - J'burg, Durban, Cape Town and finally the Krugar. I want to move tomorrow, but my main concern is we have a 10year old, in private ed and want to carry this on. Have you any advice. I would like to but a B&B or similar, do I have to have a partner to do this like other businesses in SA?
please use the SEND ME AN EMAIL link
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can't decide
March 28, 2006 08:01PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
My fiance and I are looking into moving from the U.S, South Africa has been one of our choices along with New Zealand. I would just like to know a few facts, like where are some of the safer areas, and just what we should look for before deciding. We are not really sure of how to go about deciding, or really how to start looking, so I would appriciate some help!
Thank you,
AZ
 Reply  Quote
 
S.A.
March 29, 2006 12:24AM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 3
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-06 AT 11:22 PM (GMT)


LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-06 AT 01:28 AM (GMT)

Hi there,

I’m also living in the US (FL) but only for the past 5 years.
My wife, kids and I have left S.A. in 2000 due to the high crime rate. I agree with most of the people here on this page, the chances to be raped, killed or highjacked are definitely higher then in almost any other country, but it is a very nice country and if you are a wear of the crime, you can certainly limit your risk.

We are also thinking about moving back there and from all the research I have done and from the places I remember, I believe Phalaborwa (on the kruger park), Knysna (on the Garden Route) and other places around Cape Town are one of the safer places.
I'm currently emailing with peoples from other African Country's and actually learned that Malawi, Namibia and Botswana are safer to live in and also very beautiful.

Thanks

Andre
 Reply  Quote
 
Safe for kids?
April 18, 2006 12:36PM
By Lynnie
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
I left SA over 5 years ago & am currently in the UK with my Swedish partner. We are discussing the option of having a child in 2 years time & are not sure of where we would want to bring the child up.

I feel quite sad at the thought that I will have a child who will not growup near to Table Mountain hikes & spending lazy warm days on the beaches of Cape town, but on the other hand I feel too scared to take the chance of having my baby in the back seat of my highjacked car & finding him/her shot & raped in a field somewhere....fine take all my belongings & kill/rape me but if it's your child?

Can you take that chance? What about getting used to living behind burglar bars? Is it normal that your child cannot play in the park down the road without constant adult supervision?

I'm not sure. For me, just from the safety side, I would probably rather bring the child up in Sweden, but on the other hand Africa is tugging so strongly at my heartstrings... Anyone had a baby there recently? Any ideas?
 Reply  Quote
 
So if SA is such a cool place?
May 16, 2006 12:10PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
LAST EDITED ON May-16-06 AT 01:17 PM (GMT)


Why is it that all my family are leaving in absolute fear? Could it be my aunt has be highjacked, 6 times... Last time she had a gun in her mouth and the bloke doing the highjacking saying he is going to rape her?

Why are all the powerstations having problems with power provision? THAT ISN'T NORMAL. We don't have our telly telling us what we can turn on and not!

Why is it that were I was born is now a no go area, Hilbrow? Could it be that there is no policing in SA or the police be too illiterate and uneducated to protect you, the tax payer?

Why is it that farmers are getting killed everyday with no report about it on the news? Actually, nevermind that, why don't murders make National news? Is it that too many people are being killed to bother?

Why is it that there is a brain drain in South Africa as lots of professionals which are assets to the country have left the sinking ship?

Why is it that everyone is comparing South Africa to that other sunken ship Zimbabwe?

Why is it that we have to be tolerant of others who clearly break the law?

Why is it that life means so little that when people break in into your home they have to kill you?

Why is it that South Africa has the second HIGHEST murder rate in the world? Are we trying to better Columbia! Oh yes, that's right, we were number 1 in 96... Let's not even talk about rape and the rape of innocent babies to get rid of HIV/AIDS! Come on, get out of the Dark ages South Africa!

It's no picnic. Call me what you want but the day will come when you have to take your heads out of the sand and realise what is truly going on! I was there, in denial!! I tell you what, when you see SA for what it is, you'll then leave or fight.

Finally, why are South Africans so arrogant and overly proud! For what are we proud about? We've managed to create the worse possible situation for a beautiful country with our old apartheid nonsense and now with affirmative action. The day everyone is actually equal, is the day most of us are waiting for. I for one, wouldn't bother with South Africa, there are much better places in the world.

In South Africa, you will face, Afrikaaner on English rascism. You'll find White on Black Rascism. (The whites like to deny this but they know the truth, they say their silly things to me thinking it's okay because I'm South African but it's not) You get Black on White.

I can tell you more scary true stories if you like!

Just ask!

Hey Sunshine, do you think you are nice, friendly and welcoming? You don't like what I say... Then leave... Nice!
 Reply  Quote
 
Re: So if SA is such a cool place?
August 22, 2009 11:14PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Talking about racism in South Africa? It has only been how many years 15 years since the release of Nelson Mandela. I am currently in the UK and my son ( a coloured) was called a negro by a classmate. Is that not racism in a country where this apparently does not exist. Yeah right. South Africa is doing great and and is a country to be reckoned with. Do not judge a book by its cover. I for one am proud of the very same person Nelson Mandela who endured so much during the apartheid years and still came out smiling with no grudge. He just wanted to make a difference. I think people who don't have anything nice to stay about South Africa should just keep their comments to themselves are shuf it where the sun does not shine
 Reply  Quote
 
Fantastic
May 16, 2006 05:58PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
Hi all, just came across this forum at the very start of my research into starting a business in SA. I know nothing - at the moment!! My partner and I had a very pleasant few days in Cape Town in March and thought everyone we met was just great. Incredible when you think how my forefathers had treated their forefathers. Anyway, due to various factors I am now thinking that I am fed up working for someone else and want to start my own business. This needs to be in a land of opportunity where honest endeavour in a business that serves the not-for-profit-sector, employs local people and genuinely creates a win-win-win for everyone is possible. My difficulty is (and you can't ask this question in a local bar) - can anyone tell me what the general community, establishment and immigration attitude is to gay couples from the UK settling in SA. We would be in the "invest 2.5 million RAND" category. Thanks in advance.
 Reply  Quote
 
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
No problem anyone who has 2.5 million rand is more than welcome, quite a lot or paperwork but the development associations are very helpful.

There are many, many people targeting your 2.5 million with lots of great ideas, that have no hope of working.

It is a wonderful country with lots of opportunity but be very careful how you spend your money. Feel free to send me an e mail if you would like additional info.
 Reply  Quote
 
Emigrating
June 19, 2006 08:51PM
Anonymous User
hello! around a year ago i travelled to South Africa on a rugby tour with my school, it was a life changing experience and since that tour i have not stopped thinking about moving/emigrating to this beautiful country. How easy is it to emigrate and please could you let me know how easy it is as i would love to emigrate. I also would like to know what job opportunities there are with a geography/law degree in the country. If you could get back to me it would me much appreiciated! thank you richard
 Reply  Quote
 
Come and join us
June 21, 2006 05:52PM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
You best option would be to first get a teaching job, there are plenty of great private schools.

I am sure that would not be difficult.

Did you make some contacts whilst you were here ?

Government schools would be more of a problem.

Then they would need to help you get a work permit for which they would need to prove you have exceptional skills, there is a lot of paperwork and takes some time.

Your big problem would be the pay 1/3 -1/2 of the UK for example.

Once you are here you can look for other opportunities.

Do please come and join us.
 Reply  Quote
 
thinking about it
January 03, 2007 05:56PM
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
I am 40, married with 2 kids; 12 and 6. I have worked across the world in engineering/aid/development. I recently returned from SA after having completed Enduro Africa. I am impressed and inspired !!!! I met a company director in Arusha where I was delivering a paper adn he offered me a post !!!!! What is worse, is my wife says so what and why not. GULP.

We are adventerous, free and free thinking; I have seen bad in the world, but during my 2 weeks in Sa, I saw only good; a country that can do nothing but hope and work hard; I would like me and my family to be a part of that future..........

Are we wise ?
 Reply  Quote
 
Yery wise
January 03, 2007 06:44PM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
Yes great idea.

The biggest problem here is getting a decent well paid job, seems you have sorted that problem, that should also solve any visa issues

It is a great place to bring children up and the education is great.

I have seen big improvements in the last few years, the World Cup is having an extremely positive effect already.

Same advice as ever come and join us.
 Reply  Quote
 
Residency in SA?
May 23, 2007 06:11PM
Anonymous User
I am a young white professional female geologist and am thinking of moving from the UK to South Africa to live.
I currently work in another part of africa as a geologist but as based in the UK for my leave. I'm going to start by visiting south africa a few times before i make any decisions, but essentially i would be looking to live there whilst working abroad, similar to now, except spend my leave in SA. Is this possible? Surely it would be favorable as i wouldn't be taking any jobs away from the country, whilst at the same time investing foreign money. What do you think?
 Reply  Quote
 
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
Hi Colin i have read a lot of what you put but we are still not to sure on what to do is work a realy big problem as we will only have about 20k uk pounds to comeover with we are thinking of vanderbijlpark as my wife was born there but came to uk when she was 7 she has got the book of life and SA birth cert we want to rent a property and hopefully buy when i find a job i do at moment have my own bussiness here in comuications computer networks and would love to know where to get started any sugestions
 Reply  Quote
 
Schools
January 29, 2008 09:54AM
By tibicar
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
My husband is a nuclear engineer and we are considering coming down to the south african nuclear industry. I am concerned about schooling. Will the kids 5 and 7 have to learn afrikans before they understand school or is school taught in english?
We think he is looking at a job at the power station near Capetown. Are the issues described with crime etc common here.
 Reply  Quote
 
Please come it keeps going dark here
January 30, 2008 08:15AM
By colin
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 31
Hi Rachel

Cape Town would be a great city to live in, yes there is crime but no where near as bad is at is made out.

I have a son of 14 and a daughter who is 5, one of the reasons we are still here is because the education is so good.

You have to choose and Afrikaans schools, most schools use English and teach Afrikaans as a second language, rather like we had to learn French at school in England, you have to pass to get your Matric when you are 18, no one takes it very seriously and a miserable d grade is sufficient.

Children start to learn it at the age of 10 or 11.
 Reply  Quote
 
Moving to South Africa
February 16, 2008 03:47PM
By jharper
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
Hi Colin

I was heartend to read your views on South Africa i am hoping to emigrat within the next year with my young daughter.

I am moving to be with my boyfriend who has recently returned home to South Africa after a long period here in the UK. I am at a loss as to which Visa i should be applying for i am planning to invest in a business with my boyfriend and his brother doe that mean i need to apply for a business Visa or just a work Visa?

I have visited Africa and love it i have seen all the aspects of how people live from the rich through to the very poorest. I have found the people with little or nothing more giving than those with a lot. The values of most the south african people are one i would want my child to live with.
 Reply  Quote
 
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
I am South African and after long debate and consideration have decided to leave the country.

I think when people come here on holiday they get a different view of the country. I suggest that you follow the news for a few weeks on this link before making your final decision on moving here:

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Home/0,,2-7,00.html

It will give you an idea of what goes on here on a daily basis. If you are white, think twice. Affirmative Action and Black Empowerment Equity are no longer the only threats to your existence. A new Expropriation law will be passed in July - read this if you want to know more:

http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=89813&sn=Detail

I am sad that it has come to emigration. I loved this country and I was very happy here. Unfortunately I cannot live in fear 27/7 and I would like to offer my children a better quality of life.

The past 14 years have proved to me that things are going to get a lot worse before it will get any better and one only has to look at Zimbabwe to know what is on the agenda for South Africa.
 Reply  Quote
 
Imigrating to SA
June 08, 2008 04:26PM
By small
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
My responce to the previous writer wanting to leave SA. He is puuting it very mildly. Being born in SA and at the age of 42 I am also packing and leaving. I give SA max 5yrs to be the new SA ZIM. Some South Africans will say that it is not so bad, they must be on sleeping tablets, watching an e-news @ 19h05 a financial advicer said despite the request to tighten belts we must now sell our belts for money.they don't see any improvment before late 2010.Food prices rocketed with +- 38% Fuel price is crazy.I am an Architect and my sector has hit rock bottom, a council that would normally process 14-18 plans per day(submisions) are down to 2 per week. In parow Cape Town 10 estate agents has already closed their doors.I give these points as I am talking facts not hear say.As much as I LOVED the country It has become a S--I hole.Please re-think if you want to come to this country.Only very hard-up people would consider this.
 Reply  Quote
 
small brain?
June 09, 2008 02:04PM
By JAKES
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Dear small

So you want to run? Where to? Fuel price is a global issue - it's expensive everywhere. Property sector is having a hard time all over the world - we actually have it mild here. Our banks and government have done a super job to keep credit in control. SA government will be spending billions on infrastructure here in the next 5 years. Money from investors will follow. "Late 2010" my dear that is two years away. I cannot help you if you overspend on your credit card. Then run before they reposses your stuff. JAKES
 Reply  Quote
 
SA immigration
June 09, 2008 05:55PM
By simbi
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Jake, this is not about who is right and who is wrong, the facts are clear, just do your homework and not just on inflation but also on crime, which is the biggest issue.
I currently live in Florida and yes sure fuel prices are higher and things are more expensive, but you won’t be hit as hard as in SA. I have lived on three different continents and I’m about to move to the fourth. This is my way of travelling the world together with my family and I can tell you every other continent was financially easier and the crime (especially violent crime) was not even a fraction of what SA is experiencing…man huge difference.
I was born in Rhodesia and look at that place now. I have to say SA was the place I thought I could grow old, but then it started hitting every person around me with incidents like robberies, hijacking, rape and murder and when my first daughter came along I decided that I will not risk our lives just to go through a struggle that could take a lifetime, so we moved. I can understand that if you were born and raised in SA that you want to try and get through this rough time, but the question is, when is it too late, once a family member gets raped or killed?
 Reply  Quote
 
SA is my home
June 10, 2008 08:21AM
By JAKES
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Hi Simbi

I was born in Cape Town area and lived here all of my life. I am 32 and have a professional career in finance. I have a wife and 2 kids and a big family. We live modest lifestyles in the northen suburbs and family is very important to us. So we will never move out of Cape Town. Although my house was burgled a few years ago, not me or any of my friends or family members was ever exposed to violent crime. Maybe we are lucky. In our area there are excellent public schools and all the facilities we need. On weekends we take a drive to the beach or to the beautifull winelands area. I have travelled overseas a couple of times for holidays, but I don't want to stay there. SA is my home and we will make it work here. And there are many people (of all races) here that feel the same way.
 Reply  Quote
 
"SA your home"
June 10, 2008 12:06PM
By simbi
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Jakes,

This is very nice to hear, I haven’t heard good news since I left in 2000 and I’m communicating with a lot of friend in SA. Most of them live in Kwazulu Natal and more and more are leaving, maybe Cape Town is better, at least for now.
I think what you do is brave and there should probably be more like you.
I just hope it doesn’t get worse; otherwise even you will be forced to leave one day.
 Reply  Quote
 
Move here, but...
June 14, 2008 06:21PM
By River77
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
A few cents.

I am 30 years old and spent half my life in Johannesburg and half in Cape Town.

This is an amazing country - awesome climate, lots of space, great lifestyle, nice food and restaurants, sports and more. This is what people from Europe see when they come here for short visits.

The problem is that falling in love with South Africa is like falling in love with a model who is a crack addict. You fall in love with the outside appearance, but set yourself up for a lifetime of problems.

Don't kid yourself if you move to South Africa - crime is a big problem. It's such a big problem that lots of people deal with it by pretending it doesn't exist. Speak to any South African and you'll find that either they or someone close to them has been affected by serious crime. This is not a joke, and neither is living with burglar bars, smash proof windows, high walls, electric fences, gated communities and private security companies.

As a white person living in South Africa you will also have to deal with increasing marginalisation. If you're not an entrepreneur or educated to masters level, you're going to struggle to find a job. Many government schools provide inadequate education, which means you have to fork out serious money for private school education. There are also serious problems with public transport, as owning a reliable car is essential, and SA has some of the highest car prices in the world.

Generally it is the wealthy who benefit most from this country, and often this benefit both moderates and perpetuates the suffering of the country's inhabitants. Many black people work in jobs offering them between $200 and $500 per month, with little chance of advancement. Many also live in devastating poverty in urban townships, where life is often worth less than a cellphone.

If you're wealthy and commited to improving this country, it's probably a great thing to move here. But keep something in mind, there is a cost to moving here, and you'll spend your life trying to come to terms with a deeply dysfunctional country.
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Thanks
June 14, 2008 06:25PM
By River77
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Thanks for your honesty. It describes the predicament of many whites whose lives have been heading steadily South for the last 10 years. Many whites are only able to deal with the pressure to earn money buy working overseas for 6 month periods and bringing the money back to South Africa.
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Moving to Free State
July 07, 2008 11:31AM
By scazman
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 1
Hi there. I have a job interview at a school in Welkom, Free State next month for a post of Deputy Head at an independent school. The school looks really nice and like somewhere where I could happily work. I do have lots of questions though that need answering so that I can make an informed decision of I'm offered the job.

Firstly, unlike here in the UK the salary isn't identified on the advert and I have been told that it is negociable. Would anyone be able to let me know what sort of salary such a position might attract? I've checked out the rates in the state sector and I assume the private sector pays significnatly more?

Secondly, I have no idea what Welkom, or the surrounding area is like. I am married to a Zambian and our son is mixed race and thus I have some concerns about moving to an area in SA where things have not changed much since the Apartheid era! One friend of mine as told me that Welkom is 'deeply conservative' which is code for racist - is this the case? If it is are there more tolerant locations within a 30km radius?

Thirdly, I am assuming that security issues will not be as prevelant in Welkom as in places like Jo'burg or Pretoria but this is just guesswork.

I have spent a few years living in Botswana and have encountered the downside to life in Southern Africa although fortunately I have never been the victim of violent crime. I am excited by the prospect of returning to a wonderful part of the world and to a lifestyle that I loved but before my family make such a big decision we need to be well informed!

All advice is welcome!
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Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Undoubtedly South Africa offers surreal natural beauty, a vibrant mix of cultures and probably the best climate in the world but to adequately judge whether one would be able to PERMANENTLY live here other factors need to be considered as well.

Much has changed since 1994 in South Africa for both black and white. Mostly positive. The greatest challenges the country face at this time is the widening gap between the rich and poor, unemployment and crime.

The levels of crime can be explained to an extent by the level of unemployment and subsequent poverty. What cannot be explained is the brutal nature of crime in South Africa. To me this is a very serious issue. I intend to have children one day. I do not want them to witness what I've seen in my life so far. 85 year old farmer, hands tied behind his back, hung from a rope in his outbuilding, body covered with machete hackmarks, burns and bruises. He was tortured and finally killed with a single shot to the head. The perpitrators were not caught.

I can give further examples but won't.

This is something we are exposed to each day. Previous participants to this post are angered by the perceived negativity of people such as myself that merely communicate the current situation in South Africa.

The question I have for them is the following:

Where have you been the last 15 years?

South Africa is not for the faint hearted. I'm sticking it out here due to the fact that my family has been here for 10 generations, this is where I belong!

I am a WHITE AFRICAN
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Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 1
Don't move to SA! I doubt Colin even lives there or has been there. Click on the links below to some Youtube footage about what EVERY day life has become for ALL South Africans, white, black, and coloured.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]
this one shows the safety & security minister telling south africans to stop complaining about crime or leave the country!!!!!!

There are tons more youtube clips about what every day life has become in SA. Don't move there!

I wish the people the very best, but corrupt politicians stand in the way of SA becoming what it once was and can be versus what it has become and what it will further become!
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Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 1
hi there we are thinking of emigrating from the uk to work in south africa i actually grew up there from 1972 to 1984 when i returned to the uk due to serious illnesss with my father,i met my present wife and progressed to being a train driver here in uk,i believe alot has changed since i returned to the uk and i am wanting to return can you tell me any companies that employ train drivers and if there is a demand for them ,i am also willing to go into other employment as long as i can survive on the wages ,hope you can assist me many thanks take car gary lemmon
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Registered: 4 years ago
Posts: 3
Hello Robankat,

I did indeed enjoy your post, now that you are back in South Africa, how has it all turned out?

Congratulations on the babs

kerry
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Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 3
In my view many of the predictions made by the creator of this Forum Topic have come
to fruition.Including Paragraph 6 of the original post.
There are now serious xenophobic riots in Durban and Johannesburg.
Be warned!
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Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 3
Sadly nearly all the predictions of this writer have(or are) coming true.Look e.g.
at the observations in Para 6( above)."Xenophobic attacks on Foreign Blacks
escalates" (current news coverage). In today's climate emigration to South Africa would seem to be a very
risky business.
Footnote:Will the "Censors" of this forum allow this realistic contribution to be
added here? mmm... I wonder smiling smiley
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