Re: Help needed on morrocan Culture

hello to all members, i am a new member here and i would like to have some tips on Moroccan culture. Can i man or woman from Morocco marry someone from a different country. is there any obstacle culture wise?

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>Can i man or woman from Morocco marry someone from a different country. is there any obstacle culture wise?

Yes, there are plenty. Firstly, most westerners marry for love. Moroccans marry for convenience. When I say convenience, I mean it within a true context and do not mean this as an insult.

For example, I have a Berber friend in Agadir and he told me that when he marries, he will marry a Berber girl.

Now, I thought to myself, "wow, how can he know in advance who he will marry if he has never even met the girl?" but that's the deal - he lives at home with his parents and brothers and sisters and when he wants to get married, he picks a Berber girl and then marries and goes to live with her. She then does the washing, cleaning and cooking, instead of his Mother doing it, and he gets to have children. Sorted. Most traditional societies view marriage in this way.

Secondly, most Moroccans are Muslims, whereas most westerners are not. So comes the question of which religion the children will be raised as?

Thirdly, there are quite a few western women who don't want to have children, but still want to get married. This idea is unheard of in Moroccan culture, so it's best to talk about this before you get married, rather than find out afterwards.

Fourthly, westerners will not accept a solitary life within marriage. Moroccan home life is already pre-defined. The man goes out every night to the local cafe to drink tea or coffee and play cards or board games with his buddies and the woman stays at home. Most western women will not accept this. They don't get married to be left on their own every night. A sure recipe for disaster and divorce.

I could go on and on, but the above cultural differences show me that it's not a good idea.

Attention lotuspods

While your idea to comment on the Moroccan culture is well apprciated, it is not appropriate to stereotype and spread false ideas about a country such as Morocco. Your comments indicates that the western marriage is the best senario and nothing else should matter. Why you didn't comment on the negative sides of the western marriage which cause millions of deivorce cases every month. If you compare the volume of divorce in the western countries to the Muslim world , you will be surprised at how strong relationships are in the Muslim world.
As far as marriage is concerned, I would like to bring to your attentions when a Moroccan or Muslim man marrys a woman, HE DOESN'T MOVE TO LIVE WITH HER. it is rather the opposite, the wife moves in to live with the husband. In addition, the wife in the Muslim society is not a tool to do our laundry or household with. She in indeed highly respected as a valuable woman in the house. Islam does'nt force a woman to stay at home. The phropeht's first wife Khadija was a self employed. So it is not a fact of obligatory. It is rather a self choice. The man chooses to work out side and bring the money home while the woman manages the house and raises the kids according to the parent's standards instead of taking the kids to a daycar every day! How do you ensure the kids are well taken care of in the daycare? How do you ensure they are raised as you want and not as the baby sitter want??
Another thing, not all men go out every night to a cafe shop. Keep in mind, Morocco has a high colume of unemployed single men. Those guys like to spend time in the cafe shops chatting about teir situations, and seeking potential opportunities to improve their lives. While there are few cases where married men invite their friends to a cafe shop for some time, I am sure there are many married men taking their wives out for dinner or visiting family or shoppoing...etc.
The buttom line every country has a positive and negative side, yet, we can't judge each country based on one specific experience or example. I hope this was helpful..Thanks

This is an absolutely spot on excellent answer - if many western women who get involved with Moroccans could understand this a lot of their eventual suffering would be reduced!

Lotuspods answer I mean is absolutely excellent and spot on - to thinkmorocco - your answer becomes so defensive which is sadly what Ive seen happen as a response so many times by Moroccans - instead of actually taking a look at whether, hey maybe that is the case that Ive not been aware of and checking it out theres a typical, jump up and down and refute and get all defensive and nasty and sling criticisms back - this is not how people become more aware and become able to make changes to situations that might need airing.

Its very true - many western women are getting involved with Moroccans and many of them are marriages of convenience - these women think that the words spoken are true and that there is depth and meaning to it and that they will regarded and respected - but when its only convenience there is a situation that another convenience can very easily come along and supersede that first convenience - especially when theres no really deep commitment and honour to words and especially marriage as a covenant agreement.

Its ingrained that Islam is the way and even if a moroccan loves a westerner (which really - what is the love that a moroccan has for a westerner - it is really the love of the convenience or service or what he will get by being with her) and marries her, the Islamic way will always take precedence - the children will always be muslims, if the woman wants to debate or argue about something eventually she will get to see that she can never rise above what the man ultimately decides, a muslim wife will always be seen as superior - even if the western woman agrees to sign the paper that she has to sign to agree to become muslim to marry a moroccan, if she kicks up one day she will be let go so that the moroccan can go back on track to getting a good moroccan wife that will fit into the family, do his washin and cooking and whatever the women in the family are to do.

This is why you will never be sure, whether your moroccan is in morocco with you, in your western country with you, or in separate countries, who he is with, if he is with your next door neighbour if thats what hes desired and been given the opportunity. It is all about convenience and what he wants.

Ive had Moroccan guys tell me this too - and Ive seen it myself many times - and Ive also experienced it myself. Its not about opinion, it is fact.

@angiebabe

Spot on, angiebabe.

>It is all about convenience and what he wants.

If that is what you think, in that case, don't get involved with one. Choose someone who will respect you and accept you as the person you are. Surely, nothing less than that can do?

>these women think that the words spoken are true...

I know so many that have learnt the truth the hard way, with a very high emotional and financial cost.

>even if the western woman agrees to sign the paper that she has to sign to agree to become muslim to marry a moroccan...

A western woman does not have to become a Moslem to marry a Moroccan at all - someone has misinformed you about this. A western man has to become a Muslim to marry a Moroccan woman - but a western woman does not have to change her religion at all - a Moroccan man can marry whom he wishes with no problem, whereas a Moroccan woman is only allowed to marry a Muslim.

>but when its only convenience there is a situation that another convenience can very easily come along and supersede that first convenience ...

Just blink - and make the guy a part of history.

You don't find well-off Moroccans chasing after western women. Hell no. They choose a decent Moroccan Muslim women from a good family who is going to live up to their religious and social ideals and fulfil her role as a wife and mother. That's something worth thinking about, eh?

>It is all about convenience and what he wants.

Dump him and find yourself a decent man. Americans are good.

hi im teresa i man can marry a women from outside morocco no problem but if a man wants to marry a woman he may have to be come a muslim if she is muslim

Hello thinkmorocco,

Thank you for your post.

>While your idea to comment on the Moroccan culture is well apprciated, it is not appropriate to stereotype and spread false ideas about a country such as Morocco.

My comments were not intended to be critical and I am sorry if you viewed them that way.

You say that I am spreading false ideas about Morocco? I am not spreading false ideas about Morocco. I live in Morocco and know what I am talking about. The fact that you don't like what I say is something else altogether.

>when a Moroccan or Muslim man marrys a woman, HE DOESN'T MOVE TO LIVE WITH HER. it is rather the opposite, the wife moves in to live with the husband.

Yes, of course, same as in the west, too. My expression of:

>>he picks a Berber girl and then marries and goes to live with her.

is another way of saying that after marriage they then live together, and I am not implying anything nothing more than this, so I don't understand why you chose to pick this comment out???.

The grounds that you mention for a woman not working may be correct, but that still does not change the fact that the majority of Moroccan men do not allow their wives to work and that it is generally seen as socially unacceptable in Morocco for a married woman to go to work, with Tangier being an exception to the rule (just as Tangier is the exception to the rule in just about everything, coming from a long period of International Zone rule.)

As just one *example* - I have a Polish friend who married a Moroccan. He insisted that she could not work and made this a part of their marriage contract. In return for this, he agreed in the contract that if the marriage did not work that she would get custody of the children. This woman is quite wealthy and her husband is content to live off her money, but will not allow her to work. Where I come from, we call this "double standards". Some people who may feel strongly against this kind of behaviour may take it a step further and call it "hypocrisy."

>Islam does'nt force a woman to stay at home.

We're not talking about Islam, we're talking about social custom in Morocco. The two are not the same thing. People may aspire to make them the same, but this is not an automatic procedure for them to be so.

>In addition, the wife in the Muslim society is not a tool to do our laundry or household with. She in indeed highly respected as a valuable woman in the house.

Actually, she is both. Only rich families are in a position to afford home help, so the wife has to fix all of it.

>The man chooses to work out side and bring the money home ...

He has no choice in this matter. He has to go out to work as there is no such thing as social security in Morocco. Unless, of course, he is from a rich family who supports him, or he was lucky enough to marry a rich woman who is prepared to keep him.

>How do you ensure the kids are well taken care of in the daycare? How do you ensure they are raised as you want and not as the baby sitter want??

Answer to both of your questions - you contact an agency and get a childminder who holds a Diploma in Childcare and Education. That's how you can make sure that the person is up to the job.

Another difference between east and west is that we don't regard our children as our property, like most people in developing countries do. And generally speaking, we don't force any religion on our kids, either. There is no line to tow. We allow them to choose their religion, when they get older. And if we don't like what they choose, then that's just too bad. In the west, this is called "freedom."

Hope this clarifies your objections to my previous post.

Hi Lotuspods

I agree with most of what you said but I would take issue with "we don't regard our children as our property". You can't deny that there are some uneducated Moroccan peasants who have far too many children, bring them up badly and then send them abroad to earn money to send to their parents, as if the children were only produced as a kind of pension policy. If these children then fall ill and can't work, the family will refuse to help. After all, it's the children who should send money home not vice versa. Read what happened to my boyfriend at mymoroccanboyfriendandhisfamily.blogspot.com. I want to emphasise however that this kind of behaviour definitely does not apply to educated Moroccans.

@ Tamina

Hi Tamina,

When I said "we don't regard our children as our property" I was talking about "us westerners" not Moroccans.

Concerning your comment on "uneducated Moroccan peasants" - every one to their own. People do what they like. Most educated people would see it as an issue of family planning - only having the children that you can afford to have, or the number of children that you want to have.

>After all, it's the children who should send money home not vice versa....

In Moroccan and Arabic culture, yes. In the West, no. We don't expect our children to keep us. In fact, we don't expect anything from them, that way we're not disappointed - and if they come across good, then we are delighted. It is a state of affairs that is not ideal, but that's the way it is.

Also, in western countries, there is a huge government infrastructure in place that takes care of everything from old people's homes, mental hospitals, social security and pensions - most of which does not exist in a lot of countries.

Modern western culture has a resonance (although these days it is an historically remote one because secular democracy and materialism has replaced Christianity and so people in general do not talk about God) of the Bible injunction in 2 Corinthians 12:14:

"for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children."

It is a fact that all cultures are built on a religious premise, either an active one or even a remote, ancient one. That is why there are so many cultural differences right across the board in the whole world.

Forums like this one, hopefully, can help us to build bridges, share and learn from one another, and learn tolerance and even acceptance of other cultures. It is this diversity of life that I like. I do not believe that God made us all to be the same. And yet, people with character and feeling are the people that will hurt and suffer socially - because they are different to the socially accepted norms of the pervasive sarcasm, selfishness and pessimism that seem to rule the western world. But, my God, is it worth it! It really is! Another reason I live in Morocco. I don't have to deal with people like that any more.

I read your blog. I am sorry that you have had such a bad time with those people. All I can suggest is not to get involved with mentally sick people, or people that do alcohol or drugs. We don't have to take on board and be responsible for people that are not "all there." That is their families' responsibility, not ours. Be strong. Be free. Choose wisely. God bless.

I love living in Morocco. I want to live all my life there and hope one day to die there. Insh'Allah.

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Tamina Wrote:
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> Hi Lotuspods

> I agree with most of what you said but I would take issue with "we don't regard our children as our property". You can't deny that there are some uneducated Moroccan peasants who have far too many children, bring them up badly and then send them abroad to earn money to send to their parents, as if the children were only produced as a kind of pension policy. If these children then fall ill and can't work, the family will refuse to help.

>After all, it's the children who should send money home not vice versa. Read what happened to my boyfriend at mymoroccanboyfriendandhisfamily.blogspot.com. I want to emphasise however that this kind of behaviour definitely does not apply to educated Moroccans.