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Zimbabwe safer that Jo'burg
June 25, 2002 08:42PM
By Eddie
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 8
I just returned from my trip in Zimbabwe and am shocked to hear of what the medai has been reporting about that country.
I was there during the elections which i thought were not free nor fair.
But violence was certainly absent everywhere i went. I spent a month in Harare, another in Bulawayo and 3weeks in Victoria Falls.

The land issue thats been reported about is a serious concern that I think people in the west are being misled about it by the media.

The media has made Mugabe the devil and i agree he is not mother terrisa but give the guy a break, he is doing it for the good of black Zimbabweans.

I spent some time at a farm in Eastern Zimbabwe and heard white farmers talking about fixing the government by playing the situation as if it was out of control.
The whites in Zimbabwe should feel embarrassed that it has taken this long and this for them to give up land in Zimbabwe.
I also spent some time volunteering giving out food to some farm workers.

They are treated like slaves by the whites.
I am surprised that all haven't been killed.

If they want to stay in Zimbabwe I think white farmers will have to give up more than half their wealth. By the way they are only 1% of the population and own 75% of the economy.

I am white so no I am no racist but am saying what I saw.

People should go to and visit Zimbabwe. Its 100% safer than South African and you have to see the Victoria Falls. It make Niagra Falls nothing.
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Zimbabwe
June 26, 2002 04:16AM
Anonymous User
What I heard, when I was in Southern Africa last year was
- that there had been more farmers of European origin killed in South Africa than in Zimbabwe in recent years
- that there had been far more opposition politicians of African origin killed in Zimbabwe than farmers of white origin.
Which maybe doesn´t fit to well with your statement that Mugabe is "doing it for the good of black Zimbabweans".

Quite agree that Niagara Falls is nothing to the Victoria Falls. In fact Victoria Falls is one of the five most spectacular sceneries I have ever seen, travelling in 83 countries and 5 continents.
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Zimbabwe safer that Jo'burg
June 26, 2002 04:56AM
Anonymous User
I agree with all the things you have said.
I was just kinda surprised by the bbc and other news agencies reporting things like everything was totaly bad there.
Some opposition members killed have been used by politicians from both sides which is sad.

I just hope there be less killing in Zimbabwe and more living.

I just spoke to a farmer where i spent three weeks on a tobacco farm in Eastern Highlands of Zimbabwe and he said they had not heard of a single incident so far after the eviction notice from the government.

I will posting whats happening in Zim
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Eddie, calling a ##### a #####
August 15, 2002 09:06AM
Anonymous User

Thanks Eddie, Zim is my mother land and what you said here is the absolute truth. Whether you like it or not Zim is one Great sunshine country, with friendly and peace loving people. How l wish EDDIE you had written it to a foreign paper or the South African MAIL & GUIADIAN TALK BACK FORUM
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mugabe
August 31, 2002 05:54PM
Anonymous User
White farmers have been there for more than one hundred years. They have usurped the land, dominated the natives and after all that time they have never befriended the blacks. Nor did they teach them to become farmers.
Mugabe is a hero and he is doing the proper thing. Otherwise the blacks will forever be slave-like workers for foreigners who will forever own the land.
They are demonising Mugabe because they are unable to prove that the return of purloined farmland is a just activity.
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Zimbabwe & Mugabe
November 16, 2002 11:59PM
Anonymous User
I don't know what to think now. I have heard so many terrible things that happen there and now I hear from Zimbabwean people that it is OK??? They rape your women, they take away your food and they kill wild animals who are a treasure of this land - I don't believe it's not true. They are cruel as only people can be and you say it's ok - I just can't believe it!
I understand you may not want whites to live in your country, I would like black people out of the UK too - but white people has civilized this land and they keep the econony work. They have never tried to destroy this country - Mugabe does and he makes his people suffer. How can you say he's a hero, sorry I don't get it and I feel so sorry for you.
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African farmland
November 17, 2002 12:20AM
Anonymous User
I suspect that a disporoprtionate number of black zimbaweans are poor, unwashed, shabby, and , corrupt, unproductive and dishonest.
These phenomena are not a natural consequence of skin colouration but the product of two-centuries of consistent deprivation, subjugation and exploitation.
Where in Europe can you find seventy-five percent of the productive land owned and controlled by foreigners who treat the local natives as poorly paid serfs who never end up as intimate neighbours or friends and whose lifestyles are very very different in quality.
Even if we can prove that Mugabe is a cruel and dishonest man we must concede that he is absolutely justified in re-possesing the farmland.
And if the blacks fail to produce crops it is because after two hundred years they were never allowed to acquire the skills.
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Re-possesing farmland
November 18, 2002 06:30AM
Anonymous User
So why doesn´t Mugabe give the "re-posessed" farmland to the workers on the very same farmland, instead of to his own relatives, party members and so called war veterans, being to young to have fought any war?
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Re-possesing farmland
November 18, 2002 11:36AM
By bob
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 14
Because he has become another fat cat black leader, who cares only for himself, his family and his cronies and very little for the local people (notice I said local not "his"winking smiley as I gather he is not of the same origins as most black Zimbabweans, which probably explains why he is not giving them the land.

Something had to be done about the land domination by one group, but I think he is simply swapping them for another group who are much less equipped to make the most of it long term.

Bob
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Zimbabwe & Mugabe
November 18, 2002 01:52PM
Anonymous User
Mr.Moni does not approve of the presence of Blacks in the U.K.
He should not compare their presence in the British Isles with that of the Whites in Zimbabwe.
The Blacks obtained Passports and Work Permits to enable them to reside in Europe, whereas the Whites simply turned up in Africa and started at the top of the social pyramid. No Passports or Deeds of Sale were issued by the Natives.
Every European port had a special East India Docks to receive the 35,000 shiploads of Jewels,Gold,Spices,Silks,Tropical woods,Ivory,and Rice from India and other parts of the Orient. These were not paid for.
If the whites who were born in Zimbabwe feel that they have a birthright to be there so should the diasporics who were born in Britain,Holland,France and the other former Colonisers.
Fairplay is always difficult when the Truth is unpalatable.

History and simple logic indicate that individuals leave only leave their homeland when prospects are better elsewhere.
Europe is a nice place only because it has streets that have been paved with the Gold that was forcibly removed from South America, South Africa, India, and other lands.
They forced the Chinese to smoke opium and they killed eleven thousand Sudanese byestanders within a few weeks simply to demonstrate their killing power before they usurped their land.
It is simply human nature and the "after-glow" of Empire that we observe when we see the influx of Chinese, Indians, and Africans into the Europe that has been embellished at the expense of their own lands.
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Every European port?
November 19, 2002 06:43AM
Anonymous User
"Every European port had a special East India Docks to receive the 35,000 shiploads of Jewels,Gold,Spices,Silks,Tropical woods,Ivory,and Rice from India and other parts of the Orient. These were not paid for."
Mind you, Europe does consist of other countries than Britain, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Russia and Germany! Ever heard of a Bulgarian, or Romanian, or Hungarian or Swiss colony? There are about 25-30 European countries who never had any colonies.
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European ports
November 19, 2002 01:30PM
Anonymous User
I do not know of a Rumanian seaport and I am certain that the Swiss are land-locked people.
Portugal does indeed have a grand history of colonisation and rampage! .....Ever heard of Goa and Macao and Brazil and Angola,and Mozambique or Terra del Fuego?
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Romania is not land-locked
November 20, 2002 07:07AM
Anonymous User
Constanza is a big Romanian seaport on the Black Sea. And I wrote "Mind you, Europe does consist of other countries than Britain, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, PORTUGAL, Russia and Germany!" That makes your question "Ever heard of Goa and Macao and Brazil and Angola,and Mozambique or Terra del Fuego?" pretty stupid.
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Zimbabwe
March 08, 2003 08:16AM
By Eddie
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 8
Eddie, yes Zimbabwe is a must to visit and the safety concern for tourists bears no relation to what the media would like us to believe. Zimbabwe is a truely beautiful country.

But I cannot, in good conscience or for the sake of our sanity, agree with Eddie's assesment of the political situation.The white people comprise an ethnic minority in Zimbabwe in much the same way as, for example, Asians and Blacks are an ethnic minority in many Western Countries. One expertise that white people brought to Zimbabwe is commercial farming, in much the same way as Asians owns a large section of the food industry in Britain because of their expertise. White Zimbabweans were wealthy in relation to the general population, in much the same way as Jews, with their expertise in commerce, were wealthy (and dominant out of relation to their numbers) in pre-WW2 Germany.

Now, in much the same way that it would be unthinkable for a democratic government to give whites a larger share in the curry-industry, or to force the expulsion of black players because they are over represented in American basketball, and in much the same way that it was wrong to disown Jewish enterprises in Germany on the grounds of their race in the 1930's, in much the same way it is very, very wrong, to disown a white person in Africa, whose parents and grand parents were Zimbabwean, of his lifelyhood, without compensation, purely on the grounds of his race.

Condoning, no, not opposing such acts sets for a very dangerous president in our world. Some of these farmers inhereted the land from their grandparents, and some of them bought it legally, with permission, sometimes even request, of the Mugabe's government only a few years back!! If we are not racist and consistent, we should grant ordinary Africans the same rights as ordinary Westerners enjoy. If it is unthinkable that John Howard, Tony Blair, George W Bush or Gerald Schroeder could illegally fire judges who make unfavourable rulings, use criminal gangs to intimidate racial minorities, rigg elections and order killings of their political opponents, then surely it should also be unacceptable for black Africans to live under such circumstances.

I wonder if Eddie, who claims to be non racist, took the trouble to actually speak to black Zimbabweans. Speak to them about how this "land reform" (believe me, it belongs in quotes) has affected them. South Africa has been swamped recently by tens of thousands of black Zimbabwean refugees, and all of them have voiced very vocal and visible protests against their "leader".

Wait, I lack the space to even summarise all of Mugabe's evils. But we must join the clergy, Zimbabwean civil rights groups , and ordinary Zimbabweans to stand up against that.

Wim Kotze
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our ethical code if we want to condone Zimbabwe
March 08, 2003 09:13AM
Anonymous User
So Dharma, do I understand you correctly that it is right to reposses land without compensation on the grounds of people's ethnic origin under certain circumstances? (That would make it wrong in Europe but right in Africa).

No let's define the circumstances. Maybe we should together compile something that we can propose as an ethical code to the nations of the world, based on the criteria applied in Zimbabwe, and on Dharma's argument.It might lead something like this:

"Taking away a persons lifelyhood without compensation is warranted if:
- the said owner or his/her forebears oppressed or exploited the land or the people who were there before them.
OR
- the said owner belongs to an ethnic group or race that is or has been responsible for exploitation of the land or people who where there before them, even if it is not necessarily his/her forebears.
OR
- the said owner belongs to an ethnic group or race that owns enterprises out of proportion to their minority status in a country.

If the above criteria applies, a national government may use any means, criminal or legal, to acquire the land, and they may dispose of judges who pass unfavourable rulings on this matter."

Zimbabwe, of course, would have to make to following amendment before they can sign the code:

"This code shall not apply to return land to the remaing people of the Khoisan race."
(who inhabited Southern Africa including Zimbabwe for thousands of years, and who were replaced by today's black people invading from the north in the last few centuries just prior to the arrival of whites).

India would have to make similar provision in order to protect the current dominant descendents of the Aryan conquest, the name Dharma, of course, indicating Aryan descent.
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info needed
April 29, 2003 06:32PM
Anonymous User
Hi Eddie,
IO've just read your message concerning Zimbabwe. You said you worked in volunteering. I am planning to go to zimbabwe in May, and I would appreciate if you could send me where you could work, or any info concerning volunteering or life in zimbabwe, Africa.
Thanks!
Marta from Hungary
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Re: Zimbabwe safer that Jo'burg
August 02, 2017 09:25AM
By Eddie
Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 8
You don't know what you are talking about.
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