I am with my wife and 2 kids, 6 & 4 relocating to Cape Town to live leaving the UK in Jan 05. We are all looking forward to it and are fully aware of possible dangers but these dangers are with us in the UK anyway. The education is excellent, the way of life and standards are first class. We have bought our house and cannot wait to give it a go. Don't look back and say if only.....!
Hi Dave, sound,like you are in a very similar position to ourselves. We have a 5 year old boy who we've booked into start school in Jan 05. Still waiting for our visas though. Its been over a year.Going to settle in the Gordons Bay area (30 mins from Cape Town). Don't the pesimists start to anoy you though? Constant criticism of a country most of them have never even visited. Prior to applying for residency We have been holidaying there for 12 years. In all that time I've not even witnesed an argument yet alone a gun fight by a crazed HIV positive car jacker. I feel the country in 50 years time is going to be an example to the rest of the world when future generations look back on what can be achieved when the human spirit is encouraged to build a truly multicultural and diverse society.
To all those who are contemplate moving to S.A.
I commend you to read my previous posting
"Emigrating to South Africa-Look before you leap".
I speak with personal knowledge of S.A.
There is a world of difference between holidaying in a country and actually living there.
Tourists to South Africa have been up to this point at any rate fairly "sheltered"
by Tour Operators who select what they perceive
as the "safer areas".But look for example
at tourist brochures for S.A. tours-you will find
very few relating to Durban-sea front and centre.
Most will concerntrate on suburban areas and
the North Coast e.g Umhlanga Rocks.
Now central Durban is an attractive place as is the beachfront.Why then are so few tours to those
The truth is that Durban is no longer a safe place-with rising crime e.g. robberies occuring
If you choose to emigrate to South Africa
bear these points in mind:-
l.If you have a lot of money you can purchase
property in high security enclaves with high
perimeter fences,armed response assistance and self-contained shopping malls.But do you really
want to live in a prison???
2.If you do not have funds to avoid getting work
you may have great difficulties in getting any work.Unemployment is rife and the cost of living is no longer cheap.Can you overcome and survive the economic hurdles???
3.Because of the influx of many foreign Nationals
the majority from other African States there is an
increasing measure of Xenophobia developing in
S.A.Where these foreign nationals get work
they are resented by local people who feel that
they are being deprived of the said jobs.
4. Sadly H.I.V./Aids is rife in South Africa
and medical facilities vary considerably in quality.
5.If you have children of school-going age the
standards of education in some-particularly state
schools -is debatable.In one instance the
parents of children-white black and Indian-have
removed their children and at great financial sacrifice have sent their children to private schools!!!
6 Despite the semblance of "Democracy" South Africa is in effect a one-party state with the A.N.C.having a vast majority in Parliament.
This is not always a good thing-although in fairness the previous White Government under the
Nationalist party had created in effect a one party state.
Even the U.K. has now become in effect a one-party state thanks to President Blair!!
I say again-Look before you leap!!!!
I lived in South Africa for 2 years and loved it.. Its not Europe or America and if you love those places so much and the living there then stay and leave South Africa alone. It is a beautiful country with the most amazing people. As far as the ANC government well they are 5,000 percent better than the previous government. As far as AIDS and crime it is all over Europe and America also, they just don't advertise their own problems to the world like they advertise everyone else's. I am from the US and we can't even go watch a movie nowdays without a shooting, Chicago is the murder capital of the world. Give me a break on the bs. South Africa is one of the nicest places I ever lived and Ocean View, SA is the only place I have been where Muslims and Christians live side by side with love and peace. Education is different but I would say their public schools are no worse than here in the states. There is not fantasy world where all is perfect and wonderful, you make a place what you want it to be. If you don't like living in South Africa and you are from Europe or America, pack your shit and go back home.
It seems to me as though you are focusing on the durban area, sure, Durban has been going down for quite a while now and I personally will never go back to Durban for fear of being hijacked. I do think however, that durban is a one of very few highly criminal areas.
The level of education in south africa as far as I am concerned is FANTASTIC, I was educated in south africa in a public school and i have done very well for myself. This goes for old school friends as well.
It seems to me that all of your points are highly personal and keeping foriegners from going into the country is the biggest mistake anyone could make.
I love SA and that is why i am going back, it is one of the most friendly and beautiful countries in the world and will be, as the one guy said, an example to the rest of the world!
Hi, I'm planning to move to CT in October next year and am trying to find a job to gain a permanent residence visa. Can anyone tell me what sort of skills/qualifications fall under the 'extraordinary skills or qualifications' catagory. I have an honours degree and some work experience to go with it besides other jobs. Would this be enough?
Thanks for your time.
thanks for that info!!
For sure, for all us "expats" wanting to emigrate to "this country".....
You do seem to be slightly "obsessed" with "Durban"
We went to "Durban" in 1999- yep ok things may of changed& yes there were areas, that was,nt-so accommadating, hey this was our first time& even then we picked up on the "feeling"of not being in the "right place at the wrong time"
Call me ignorant if you like, but for sure this country.,will come back.
Yes i am a "tourist", but have been to jo"burg& yes stayed there, many times with my family, seen the "roadblocks,having a "braai"& having "copters " coming over your house"for us "tourists"-who hey live so chocolate box life"you just really have to adapt.
I truly,as a person believe- the country , as a whole will for sure, be in time be one of the best places on this earth!!!
I really really hope so!!!
WOW! What a wonderful experience! We're currently in Spain checking out what it's like, but today I (Claire) am considering moving to Cape Town just like you guy's are. Please could you let us know how you're getting on.
I seem to agree with Sarah on most things South African. The country is great and it's education system is fantastic (especially if you're black). I know of numerous of UK based black families who are packing off their little ones to South Africa for the sole reason that they see eye to eye with the South African notion of school born discipline, which is now sadly absent in the UK.
Now I think (like Durban) that Jo-burg gets a bad wrap ALL THE TIME. For me Johannesburg is the ONLY place in Africa that I could live. In Durban, I would play. In Cape Town, I would sleep but only in PWV would I be able to work and live. I was born and raised in Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK and to tell you the truth I simply can't see the difference between Birmingham (UK's second city) and Johannesburg. So when I finally get to SA with the wife, that's where I'm going to be laying down roots. Jo-burg is vibrant, exciting, go-getting while at the same time, one of the most dangerous places on Earth. Alas I can't help myself. For me....Jo-burg ticks all the right boxes.
Colin is dead right about the South African currency. My wife and I plan to rent out our house in London, while making a new home and starting a new business (which will also be earning hard currency) in South Africa. My best advice to ANYONE contemplating coming out to SA is.....always cover your back. JC
I moved to Cape Town from New York exactly six months ago joining my South African life partner.
While I can't speak for life in Durban, I'd like to resond to Cassandra's points in relation to Cape Town:
1) Even with the weak US dollar and strong rand the sale of our NYC apartment enabled us to buy outright (with a lot left over) a nice house in a middle-income area. Our next door neighbor has been burgled twice in 31 years and another neighbor once in 19. Other friends have lived here all there lives and have never once been a victim of a crime since apartheid ended (including our best friend who is 66 and lived here since she was 12). We have felt perfectly safe virtually everywhere we have gone. It's just a matter of being streetwise like most places in the world. We have not felt the slightest inclination to move to a gated community.
2. Unemployment is lower in the Western Cape than in the rest of the country and lower still for tertiary educated people. It's taken a bit of time but we are both finding consultancy work. If you do have even a small income in dollars, pounds or euros, it still goes a long way here.
3. I have felt no resentement from South Africans at all. In fact, many perfect strangers have helped me find work.
4. Yes, HIV and AIDS is, sadly, one of this nation's largest problems. But there is an extordinary movement, including hundreds of non-profit organisations, who are fighting AIDS (and helping people living with AIDS) in many ways. I am proud to volunteer at one of these groups. By April, generic anti-retroviral medication will be available for approximately 100 Rand per month. Compare that with the US. As for the quality medical care I have found standards to be higher here than in the US where I was a member of a ghastly HMO.
5. The state run schools in my area, I understand, are quite well run and standards are reasonable.
6. "Semblence" of democracy? Cassandra, I'm not sure you understand what democracy means. If 70% of eligible South African voters cast their ballots for the ANC, then 70% of the elected representatives should be from the ANC! Democracy means, in part, that the will of the people is relected in the legislature they elect. This is what happens in South Africa.
Well Colin.....I'm sending this from Tottenham, North London but I'd rather be on Jo-burg. Pray tell....which side of the tracks do you come from? Something tell's me it isn't Heath Town, Parkfields or Whitmore Reans.
Me! I'm a life long Arsenal supporter. You don't get spat at , at Highbury. I was born in Handsworth, Birmingham and brought up near Sedgley Beacon. I have family who now live all over the place from Cheslyn Hay to Whittick Bank. I also have adopted family in PE but alas I've never visited the place. I'm looking to put right that sin of omission, real soon. Then we can make a plan. I'm looking to drive the Garden Route in one of them PE built AC Cobra's.
Is it correct that you are an American Citizen and that you have lived in South Africa for only 6 months?
If that be so I suggest that you have a steep
learning curve to surmount.
In Africa(including South Africa)so-called Western Style Democracy does not exist.It is the dominant Tribe that calls the shots!
For example the Afrikaner "Tribe" dominated the political scene in SA from 1948 until 1994.
Under their rule SA was in effect a "one party state".
Now it is the Turn of the "Black Tribe who has control of the Armoury" to reign supreme.
In due course all opposition parties to the ANC will be stifled.
I do not know whether you are Black or White Adrian.
If you are the former you may be O.K. although you could experience resentment from the indigenous Blacks many of them have gained sweet FA since 1994-widespread poverty abounds whilst the "Fat Cats of the ANC" ride the Gravy Train with impunity!
If you are white I suggest you seek another land.
White male South Africans especiallythe young are leaving the country in droves.
You know why?
With the implementation of the insane policy of "Affirmative action" white males rank about four rungs down the order of batting-job discrimination runs rampant and you get the absurd situation where totally incompetent persons
are placed in high positions!
Finally I must permit myself a wry smile when you aver that you are not sure that Cassandra understands what democracy means.
Possibly the average " grass roots" American might have a semblance of understanding but not your Government.
The debacle of the invasion of Iraq speaks for itself.Quit kidding yourself if you think that the recent elections in Iraq were truly democratic!
The destiny of Iraq will be determined by Islamic principles alone and not by the Oil-obsessed
destroyers in Washington.
In the name of Allah the Merciful and the Prophet Peace be upon Him.Allahu Akbar!!!
Big Boy Freddy "Mugu" Majola
"Mugu" by name but NOT "Mugu" by nature!
Anonymous User Wrote:
> Is it correct that you are an American Citizen and
> that you have lived in South Africa for only 6
> If that be so I suggest that you have a steep
> learning curve to surmount.
> In Africa(including South Africa)so-called Western
> Style Democracy does not exist.It is the dominant
> Tribe that calls the shots!
> For example the Afrikaner "Tribe" dominated the
> political scene in SA from 1948 until 1994.
> Under their rule SA was in effect a "one party
> Now it is the Turn of the "Black Tribe who has
> control of the Armoury" to reign supreme.
> In due course all opposition parties to the ANC
> will be stifled.
> I do not know whether you are Black or White
> If you are the former you may be O.K. although you
> could experience resentment from the indigenous
> Blacks many of them have gained sweet FA since
> 1994-widespread poverty abounds whilst the "Fat
> Cats of the ANC" ride the Gravy Train with
> If you are white I suggest you seek another land.
> White male South Africans especiallythe young are
> leaving the country in droves.
> You know why?
> With the implementation of the insane policy of
> "Affirmative action" white males rank about four
> rungs down the order of batting-job discrimination
> runs rampant and you get the absurd situation
> where totally incompetent persons
> are placed in high positions!
> Finally I must permit myself a wry smile when you
> aver that you are not sure that Cassandra
> understands what democracy means.
> Possibly the average " grass roots" American might
> have a semblance of understanding but not your
> The debacle of the invasion of Iraq speaks for
> itself.Quit kidding yourself if you think that the
> recent elections in Iraq were truly democratic!
> The destiny of Iraq will be determined by Islamic
> principles alone and not by the Oil-obsessed
> destroyers in Washington.
> In the name of Allah the Merciful and the Prophet
> Peace be upon Him.Allahu Akbar!!!
> Big Boy Freddy "Mugu" Majola
> "Mugu" by name but NOT "Mugu" by nature!
Exellent.you are spot on about South africa.all you sais is abso;lutely thje truth and nothing but the truth.keep it up.
I've got news for you. If western style democracy doesn't exist anywhere in Africa, then I can tell you that it doesn't exist anywhere else either (especially in the west). The first election of GW Bush, saw ballot boxes become part of the landscape of the everglades. GW's second election wasn't much better. While on the other side of the pond you've got Tony "The War Monger" Blair. Nuff said. Before Blair....we had Maggie " The Snatcher" Thatcher, so not much change there then. I know people who are just dreading the coming of the next general election in the UK. The differnce between Labout and the Tories are paper thin and only a optimist thinks that the Liberals are going to get anything but a sniff of Number Ten. As for the ANC jumping on the gravy train....well I was there in Soweto when Pickfords moved one and all to Sandton. The ANC elite are no better (or worse) in this regard, than the other long term passengers on board the International Sponger's Express.
Now freddy, you are not the first and won't be the last to mention this alleged resentment felt by "indigenous blacks" of us Johnny Foreigners. I've been travelling in and out of South Africa now for longer than ten years now and not once have I been made aware of bad feelings towards me as a British Black person. I've seen a couple of black Americans run out of town on a couple of occasions but that was because the yanks in question were arrogant dickheads in deep need of a good beating.....and they deserved it! In fact White South African have nothing to fear, as long as they stay in SA and build up their country strong. They just need to do something about their lack of commitments to cricket and rugby.
I was deeply engaged in grass roots politics in the US and agree with you entirely that democracy in that country is under serious attack. I don't, however, need a "big learning curve" in South African politics as you sugest. I am already working as a consultant to several South African NGOs and a minority political party.
As a white foreigner I have not experienced the slightest hint of resentment from a single black, "coloured" or muslim person I have encountered. Quite the contrary. One black lady, the head of an NGO, has given me consultancy work and invited me to apply for a full-time position.
A word on South African democracy. I have lived in (and have been politically active in) the USA, Australia, the UK and now South Africa. In only one of those contries is it not possible to form government with a minority of the vote. Thatcher won with 42%, Bush in 2000 won despite getting by half a million votes less than Gore, and Howard (conservative PM of Australia) won despite getting 3 percentage less that the labor party in 1996. Among these countries, South Africa alone ensures that political representation reflects the votes cast. And its constitution guarantees more rights than any of the others. Big Boy Freddy, you can have a "wry smile" as wide as you like, but the fact remains that South Africa is a model democracy.
If you took the time to examine what Affirmative Action actually is, you'd see the requirements are not that onerous. I for one think that AA will be necessary in the civil service and large business for some time. I do think, however, the AA requirements should be gradually phased out for NGOs, small and medium-sized businesses.
Thanks for your advice but despite my many options I do not intend to leave South Africa. Oh, and perhaps you haven't heard but ex-pats are coming back in quite significant numbers.
Hello. I have been contemplating moving to SA in the future sometime. Not sure when yet, but it wouldn't be for a couple of years, at least. IT's been something that I have wanted to do for a number of years now. I have had the pleasure of meeting a girl online about 3 years ago, and she is from SA. She grew up there and told me that I should at least come visit. I very recently moved to the US from Canada to be with my girlfriend, and after I had told her about my friend in SA and me wanting to go there, she offered to go with me if I ever decided to go.
Although I do have a friend and her family already living there, I would like a few different opinions about what the religion is like in SA, as I am a Christian and would like to know how accepted Christianity is in different parts of SA. How religious, or how Christian is SA?
Thank you for you thoughts and opinions.
In some instances you make a few valid points but as by your own admission some people are stressing personal points for concern I think you too need to be a bit more realistic about your own views. Education may have been great in your day and age (you mentioned being educated in SA, my question is: "WHEN"!) but things have changed considerably and I am also saving to send my daughter to a private school (yes, saving, as not everyone can afford the luxury that should be basically and fairly available but isn't). I disagree with Durban being one of the FEW unsafe places in the country. I have lived in PTA, on the East Rand and in Sandton in the past 10 years and have relatives in CT and on the North and South Coasts, I assure you there are dangers EVERYWHERE! I have witnessed and experienced hi-jacking and smash & grab incidents, in peak hour traffic (and people are too afraid to help so offenders are well aware that they can get away with it). My older sister has her home broken into 5 times in the Paarl (in a aparrantly secure area) which forced them to move to a security estate, my younger sister and her husband were held at gunpoint by 11 armed men in Nov and had R300 000 and personal belongings stolen from them, my father in law was murdered in a hi-jacking attempt, they didn't even take the car in the end, my best friends mother was hi-jacked, in another incident held at gun point at a upmarket and popular grocer (in a "secure" area) and one of the car was stolen from their property in a so-called secure area (all in the space of six months - and recently). I don't go out of my way to associate with drama, we happen to all be normal people, from various places in life that happen to live in the same crime ridden country. It's sad because our country is beautiful, I love the weather, I love South African food, magnificant beauty of all of our provinces and I'm proud to be a South African, however I miss the US just because of the simple pleasures such as safety that I experienced when I lived in Atlanta. I wish we had it all.
Cassandra, I would turn it the other way around and say that if you decide to live behind barbwired walls you are creating your own mental and physical prison....but I don´t think your your forced to live like that in order to get by in SA.
I don´t know anyone living like that, and they´re all doing fine - foreigners as SA´s...
I was born in Cape Town, now live in Florida. My husband and I decided to return to South Africa and relocated to Plumstead. All I can say that it was the worst decision that we ever made, and we left after 3 months. I did not expect the level of crime, drugs and anxiety of the community from "contantly being on the alert". I graduated from Trafalgar High School in Cape Town, I certainly know the level of education in South Africa. By what I heard from a former school principal, the level has most certainly gone down and the children are no longer safe in their schools. Gangs roam the area and intimidate the children. Also child rape is a huge problem. http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=&click_id=79&art_id=vn20050617070235341C105294.
I will never expose my children to this situation. We feel much safer here in the USA.
Hi, It is not worth moving to South Africa at present, due to the overzealous application of affirmative action (reverse apartheid) which is currently in force by act of Parliament. What we have once again is a state of discrimination. Irrespective of your skills and qualifications unless you are black, you will not be considered for any possible positions. This is a fact of life in South Africa.
I live in cape town and know camps bay very well its an awsome area you will love it!!
If you have done your research and decide on relocating to camps bay Please contact me as I can find you the perfect property there and can give you all the info you need.
My name is crystal email, email@example.com
I travel alot and have been to the USA myself and love my country, Camps bay is one of the best places to live.
My amazing boyfriend (and most likely future husband) is from Pretoria. I am moving there to see what it's like. Coming from the New York/Massachusetts in the US, I AM a bit leery about the violence in SA that I've heard about as I am not used to it here. I hear Pretoria isn't too bad though? Johannesburg tends to have a lot of violence correct?
I do feel a little safer and at ease that I will be with someone who has lived there his entire life, so I won't go into situations or places unknowingly.
I look forward to at least checking it out but definitely am a bit nervous at the new cultural changes. Anyone familiar with Pretoria or Joburg?
I live in SA never had anything bad happen to me,but I stay in Cape town its awsome here.
Johannesburg I personally woul'dnt move there but pretoria is nice if you need any assistance with
Buying a house in an awsome area or place in the SA I am a property specialist and can help you find a perfect place to settle down and a perfectly safe area.
if you wish to contact me heres my details.
Crystal cell: 074 649 1186 or hentie 076 9077184
I'm looking to move to Cape Town in October, I will be living with my SA boyfriend and I am hoping to get a Life Partner visa. I understand that the Life Partner visa does not give you the right to work in SA but it does make it easier to apply for a work permit as there is less requirements. Are you able to explain to me how you can top up your Life Partner visa to a Work Permit?
I will be moving to SA in November. I'm an American girl who grew up in South Africa and I hold a South African permanent residency. I've been living in America now for about 7 years and let me tell you that I have never felt as alive in the states as I do in South Africa. Two years ago I lost my best friend to the crime. Its terrible I know. But if we all start running away where is that going to leave South Africa? I think we should stay and stick it out, that we should fight the crime. Yeah, the country has its problems with crime but with a bit of common sense and responsibility these problems can be avoided. And as the economy improves the crime rate will drop. South Africa is going to make it out of this "Adolescent" phase of its growth and become an example to the rest of the world. I for one would like to be a part of that. I salute you for moving there.
It may have changed in the three years since I applied but what I received was a "Relatives Visa." This was arranged by the SA Consultate in New York. We both had to complete an affidavit and my life partner had to write a letter swearing to support me financially in SA (if the need arose).
You are right that such a visa does not automaticaly entitle you to work. But you should apply for permanent residence as soon as you arrive. You could apply for it at the SA consultate wherever you are (at the same time as your Relative's visa) but the Department of Home Affairs seem to do better if the Permanent Residence application orginates with them rather than sent to them by a Consulate via the Department of Foreign Affairs.
One way or another be prepared for a long wait for Home Affairs to process your Perm Res application! I ended up going to a small company called Relocations On-line (whose staff are mainly former Home Affairs employees) and they managed to expidite my application for me for a reasonable fee. Even so it took many months.
There is a Cape Town-based lawyer who specialises in immigration and he has been so successful in litigating against Home Affairs that they move quickly on any case see his name on! Needless to say, he is very expensive.
If you find a company willing to hire you (even if only as a consultant) you can get a work permit specific to that job only if the company is willing to complete the forms. Home Affairs processes these quickly. This is how I got my first consultancy work in SA long before my Perm Res was granted.
HI COLIN,I'M PLANNING ON MOVING TO CAPE TOWN SEPT 2008,MY WIFE AND FIRST CHILD ARE RSA CITIZENS.ITS ONLY ME AND MY SECOND CHILD THAT NEED TO APPLY FOR RESIDENCE,CAN YOU POINT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOR EITHER A COMPANY THAT CAN ORGANIZE ALL THE LEGAL JARGON,OR HELP ME YOURSELF WITH SOME INFO...I LIVED IN CAPE TOWN FOR 5 YEARS OFF AND ON,SO HAVE A FEW FRIENDS WITH BUSINESS THAT CAN OFFER ME EMPLOYMENT.AS YOU CAN APPRECIATE ITS A BIG MOVE WITH THE FAMILY SO THE MORE INFO THE BETTER.MANY THANKS STEVE
I've been consulting for a South African firm for the last six month from Singapore where I live, and now I'm looking to move to J'burg to work full time for them. As the only other EXPAT in office the did his work permit 10years ago, we are all not sure how to go about it. Most importantly how long did it take to get the permit. After reading the Home Affairs website on work permits I'm now Highly stressed by the whole procedure. I've lived and work in many countries round the world but for some reason the paper work now seems overwhelming! Can anyone en lighting me more!
I moved to SA a couple of years ago and love it here. I am originally from the UK and came over on a holiday visa. My husband is South African, and so while out here I visited Home Affairs and extended my 3 month holiday visa into a year long life partner visa.
As my husband is South African there is no cost in applying or obtaining this visa from Home Affairs and the whole process is very easy.
Once I applied I waited only a few weeks to get my visa.
If anyone needs any advise or they have any questions for me - SEND ME AN EMAIL- firstname.lastname@example.org
and I will be happy to help, for free, where I can.
1. how do you get a job in SA?
Getting a job can be quite easy.
I am originally from the UK and once I got here I joined a number of job agencies and bought the local job paper each week.
I went for lots of interviews and found that my work visa was an issue to some companies. In the end I got the perfect job for myself by applying for a job advert I saw in the paper
2. what are the steps to take in getting a work permit?
Getting a work permit is fine - so long as the company you are going to work for supports you.
You need to get the company you are going to work for to supply a letter to Home Affairs along with your work visa application, stating why they are employing you rather than a South African. With your experience you should not have a problem, and if your looking for a banking post then I am sure the top banks here have gone through this process before with other employees
3. do i need to be in SA physically to look for a job? can i get it online?
You could try on line - but to be honest, most companies want to meet you in person so I would recomend coming here to do the job hunting / join the agencies
Im considering moving to SA and wondered what my chances are. I am a uk and an irish citizen. I lived in zimbabwe as a child and my mother is South African. However she has lived in the uk for over 20 years now so she is a uk citizen too. Would her birth nationality help me?
Please tell me were is safe?
the wouldnt be peace if there is no war. No were is secured on this God denm green earth. Unless you have faith and positive mind.
SA will gain peace somday and i think everyone who will like to visit or stay will really enjoy and appriciate. I love to tour around and will advice you who want to to joing me now for better life xperience.
Hi Neil, I find your comments to be hilarious but with a positive outlook. Its good that you're not in fear of what some people in society just don't want to change. Our future is very important so that we all understand each other as individuals. That way we can thrive in a multicultural, diverse society in peace.
I really admire your stance on things but my view is quite the opposite. You said "But if we all start running away where is that going to leave South Africa?" Answer with less people to get raped, robbed and murdered.
And by the way, if the police cant fight the crime effectively, how on earth could the average citizen do it?
I emigrated from SA 10 years ago and haven't missed it a day. Its wonderful to sleep at night and know (yes..KNOW) that no-one is going to break into your house and take your or one of your family's life for the sake of replaceable items. I know this sounds harsh and I know many folk may disagree with me, but I think only when South Africa feels the pain of lost tourism and business will the SA government do something about the crime. Even so, I wouldn't hold my breath for that. They haven't shown themselves to be very effective in much.
Nevertheless I hope your move was a good one for you seeing that you posted two odd years ago. Perhaps you could let us know here whether you made the right decision.
I read the posts to this discussion and have found it very useful. At present I have interviewed for a job in Cape Town. My aunt and uncle used to live in Cape Town and have visited a number of times. I will be moving with my partner and 1 year old son and want to enquire about the pre-school and primary school set up? Does anyone have experience of sending their children from approx 3 years old to school in Cape Town?
I am also researching housing (probably rental accomodation initially) in various suburbs of the city centre. Can anyone recommend any particular locations? or good estate agents?
Crime. Always a consideration when moving to another country. Does anyone have a link to any recent crime statistics in Cape Town/SA?
Surely the next 10 years should be a great time to be living in Africa. The continent is going to experience massive growth in industry and education is on the rise.
I will appreciate and acknowledge any advice.
People are not equal in South Africa. The balance is volatile. A white minority now overcome by a black majority...yeah..no hard feelings there! Seriously...did Einstein's theory not make an impact on anyone!!!!
Some of those who stick up for South Africa have not been to Canada or the USA.
Let's stick to the facts!!!!
Population of South Africa about 50 million. Canada about 30 million. USA about 300 million.
Unemployment of South Africa about 20%,
Canada about 8%,
USA about 10%.
What if I had cancer as a South African...20% unemployed...no healthcare there!!! Move to Canada....Have Cancer? Get cured for FREEE!!!!!
Someone please fill in the gap of violent crime rates.
Go to Canada...tons of mid sized cities with low violent crimes. Did I mention Canada has a minimum wage of R400 per hour. Yes...minimum like in a coffee shop. I've seen so many shops like that in South Africa that pay R2.00 per hour. There is no such thing in Canada. If there is...it's so illegal it will not exist tomorrow. In Canada a one Bedroom Apartment (yes a bedroom not a granny flat) in a crime free area you can walk around at night starts at R4000 in a mid sized city.
A beachfront apartment in Durban can cost the same or more...and is not safe at night at all...I've lived in one.!!!
CORRUPT...open your eyes....your country is lacking because you need to wake up on YOUR FEET....
If you want to brag...fix your country.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2010 10:02AM by yepitis.
> People are not equal in South Africa. The balance
> is volatile. A white minority now overcome by a
> black majority...yeah..no hard feelings there!
> Seriously...did Einstein's theory not make an
> impact on anyone!!!!
> Some of those who stick up for South Africa have
> not been to Canada or the USA.
> Let's stick to the facts!!!!
> Population of South Africa about 50 million.
> Canada about 30 million. USA about 300 million.
> Unemployment of South Africa about 20%,
> Canada about 8%,
> USA about 10%.
> What if I had cancer as a South African...20%
> unemployed...no healthcare there!!! Move to
> Canada....Have Cancer? Get cured for FREEE!!!!!
> Someone please fill in the gap of violent crime
> Go to Canada...tons of mid sized cities with low
> violent crimes. Did I mention Canada has a minimum
> wage of R400 per hour. Yes...minimum like in a
> coffee shop. I've seen so many shops like that in
> South Africa that pay R2.00 per hour. There is no
> such thing in Canada. If there is...it's so
> illegal it will not exist tomorrow. In Canada a
> one Bedroom Apartment (yes a bedroom not a granny
> flat) in a crime free area you can walk around at
> night starts at R4000 in a mid sized city.
> A beachfront apartment in Durban can cost the same
> or more...and is not safe at night at all...I've
> lived in one.!!!
> CORRUPT...open your eyes....your country is
> lacking because you need to wake up on YOUR
> If you want to brag...fix your country.
What you wrote is sooo wrong soo soo wrong Canada is horrible i live there its the shittest place. minimum wage in most parts of the country are around 65Rand per hour!!! not 400 are you crazy, houses here are soooooooo expensive i live in a slightly better than average house costing 1.3 million dollars thats like 10 million rand i live in a cheaper town, im not near any lake or have any kind of view just in an average neighbourhood and 1.3 million dollars is gone. Canada has horrible crime just like south africa a white person walking down the street of a native reserve will NOT survive. everybody knows that thats why white people dont go to native reserves for the same reasons why whites in SA dont go to certain areas. in vancouver a one bed room apartment costs $1500 a month for rent thats 11,000Rand right now people struggle soo much to get jobs here, people are getting laid off left right and center, the only real job rich area is in northern alberta, but its such a dirty place. and AIDS Canada has lots of it, SA certainly has more but the difference is that SA people have it because they are ignorant and Canadians have it because they are just stupid. we had a trailer chained with numerous locks to a big steel pole as well as a wheel lock at our house....stolen. probably one of canadas safest areas too. another trailer also stolen. people went into our house and stole various items from our garage. I have such a passsionate hate for canada im moving back to sa. there is absolutely no sense of culture or belonging in Canada because there are too many races and religions and people here. a sense of pride for canada is really rare. Canada gets electronics after SA has had them for a long time. cars in Canada are super crap, our high end models are SA's base models. the only thing thats good in Canada is the Government and the fact that its a bit safer to live here. health care in canada is no too much better either although it might be free it takes forever, go to the ER and expect to wait a day... schedule a surgery and by the time you get it your already dead. also another big problem i have is that girls in Canada are bloody ugly SA girls are far far prettier and the girls that are pretty in canada are all sluts.
Canada is perfect for the individual who likes ugly people, doesnt like to have friends, doesnt enjoy sports, likes to sit inside, likes to smoke weed and talk like an idiot EH
You are right it's not R400 per hour, I meant to say R400 per day vs R80-100 per day for many (not all) jobs in south africa. Many businesses hire workers for that because people are desparate and accept it. This wage not reported or taxed...that's how they get away with it.
You say canada is only a bit safer to live in. According to the statistics... Canada murder rate is 0.0149063 per 1,000 people...and South Africa's is 0.496008 per 1,000 people..which is only second to the top ranked country of Columbia.
Murder rank South africa #2 spot. Canada rank #44 check the stat's here if you don't believe me.
And I've heard the same waiting for a day story in the ER in Durban.
By the way, going to the Doctor in SA can cost you $100 CAD just for a normal visit. I know someone there who recently went to the doctor, then went to the hospital for an xray and orthoscopic camera test, then back to the same doctor for results, then a minor orthoscopic day surgery.
Here's the cost:
Doctor visit #1 $100 or R600
Hospital tests $217 or R1500
Doctor visit #2 $100 or R600
Day surgery $289 or R2000
Total cost $706 or R4700
Cost in canada free
Have high blood pressure which is common for many...$200 for two visits plus a few more so the doc can monitor you.
Need a physical at least once a year...ad $100
These instances are not completely rare, for just the above you would have not spent $1000 in Canada for all that.
I would guess the cost of cancer treatment could be up to $200,000. Ok, it could take a while in Canada, but you'll wait even longer if you don't have $200,000 in your mattress. At least in Canada, you have a chance...Feel free to provide stats on people's lives that have been saved for free.
I know someone who was cured of prostrate cancer in canada.
Life threatening illness aside, if you have any kind of illness that takes regular doctor visits and or hospital visits, you would be up shit creek in south africa without paying for insurance.
$1.3 million for your house, you are not mentioning you are building capital from it. Congratulations, money in the bank. And the above example above shows you probably could have spent half that and still had great living conditions...we all have choices.
And there are nice sized houses in good neighbourhoods in smaller cities, we sold one a few years ago at about $120,000 or R828,000....4 level split built in 1977 4 bedrooms, 2.5 bathrooms,double attached garage, a large city park behind the house with an elementary school just behind the park.
Oh you are right about the Government being better in Canada. If you need anything done in a timely matter by the Dept of Home Affairs in SA...well put it this way, take a picture of yourself when you walkin the doors and then after when they finish your affairs...a few years should have passed by then and the second picture should be able to tell you how much time has passed by counting the crows feet around your eyes.
and AIDS Canada has
> lots of it, SA certainly has more but the
> difference is that SA people have it because they
> are ignorant and Canadians have it because they
> are just stupid.
Answer: or maybe it's because you can have 5 wives in SA. Get a GPS for each one of them.
there is absolutely no sense of culture or
> belonging in Canada because there are too many
> races and religions and people here. a sense of
> pride for canada is really rare.
Answer: You must be right, and that is why we broke the records for Gold medals at the 2010 Vancouver olympics. And it is also why we welcomed First Nations chiefs alongside the Prime minister at this event.
Canada is perfect for the individual who likes
> ugly people, doesnt like to have friends, doesnt
> enjoy sports, likes to sit inside, likes to smoke
> weed and talk like an idiot EH
Answer: Don't enjoy sports? Did I mention the olympics?
Ugly people? dude, that's funny eh!
girls in Canada are bloody
> ugly SA girls are far far prettier and the girls
> that are pretty in canada are all sluts
Answer:Correct, the immense time you spend at the clubs drinking would create that exact perception. Every race has beauty, write it down. We all live on earth and are human, please also write that down.
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Lol its so funny how ppl talk bout SA, some o yol have neva been there, this thing about white ppl having no future thre is bull! Everybuddy is equal. Level of education is excellent, ppl are kind and helpful, i'd much rather be in SA than the USA where ma kids will be dealing drugs and carrying AKs by the age of 15. U have to go to SA to appreciate it and see that its not wut we are being shown on tv. I know a lot of ppl who have moved from the US to SA and they are loving it.