Emigration to South Africa-Look before you leap!

My partner is from SA, and this winter (summer over there!!) we are going to go for a holiday. Although ive heard and read about the crime rate, and even experienced it second hand, I'm just as eager to go. Ive heard that it is one of the most beautiful countries in the world, and cannot wait to experience it for myself. After my visit, I shall conclude in my own thoughts as to whether of not I would like to live out there. Colin, could you give some advice as to what to look for when Im out there that might help me make a decision, as I dont want to waste my time out there.

It is without doubt one of the most beautiful countries in the world.

I think the biggest problem is making a decent living which is not so easy, but things improve all the time, the economy is really taking off.

New car sales for example are at there highest levels ever.

We also have 340 + days of sunny weather.

It will be an easy decision to make.

Let me know if you need any help

hey,Im Jerilyn a 16 yr. old female. Now over the past like 4 yrs. my granddad has had south africans come over and work for him at the carnival. now from what they tell me about SA it's a beautiful country!! Yeah Im sure it has its ups and downs but honstly what country doesnt? Come on now you can not sit here and bull shit on how your country is soo damn aweful and is growing with HIV and AIDS. I mean yeah Africa in genral has hiv and aids but Im from the USA and every 10 secs. or 10 mins. (some crap like that) 1 in like 3 (I think) teenagers gets infected with hiv or aids. So come on take a look around you besides your country hiv and aids are every where. Drugs, Gangs,and Violence is every where not just there you know. I mean I have lived in some places you couldnt surrive in for 24 hrs., I have lived in Chi-Town aka Chicago, Ive lived in Gary,In and trust me they have good parts but they also have bad parts with a higher crime rate then other places around me. My mom was murdered in a really nice well respected area. So theres a point right there. Yeah my South Africans have said you know this place is pretty bad this place is really nice in SA. But they still love their country. Lots of them want to go home they cant wait to go home, but that was their attitude towards the end of their visas, now when they first arrive, their taking pictures of everything and anything and they love it here they never want to go home, but Ill tell you what after a while they got board yeah well I dont blame them they came to see America and all they see is parking lots,I mean they could go out afterwards, but who wants to go out at 12:00 am and be up the next day at 11:00 am to work again, trust me the public isnt very nice especally when your labled as a "CARNIE", here in America thats not to nice of a name to be called I know I get called it still to this day. I love my country you may say yeah well your an Amercian you have this you have that, but trust me I have worked for everything I have. Yes theres some jobs that are easy pay such as the carnival, but then you have jobs where you really have to bust your ass in order to get anywhere, especially if you didnt graduate high school or go to college. Its expensive here to live just like everywhere else but I'll tell you what, we were just hit by hurricane katrina and that right there is making gas prices go way way up like to $3.75 a gallon by summer it will be $5.00 per gallon or more, intrestes rates are going up, not to mention many people were left homeless, many died, and many dont have insurance to cover any of the damage put yourself in their shoes and try to picture losing your home,family,everything youve worked for, yeah it may be a weather problem and not murder but its still the fact that you should honor love and charish your country till the day you die no matter what country it may be. Yeah go visit other countries if you want to I know I will Ill probley end up living in SA myself but hey what can I say I love my South Africans also known as my babies.

The problem exists if you are a white person who should be in a senior position. There is no chance of getting a position which would be a match for your skills. Those white males in positions are holding on for dear life, as they know they cannot move onwards/upwards in South Africa.


Also the
>information about Affirmative Action is very
>inaccurate as it does not encourage
>un skilled or less qualified persons
>to obtain jobs in the placeof
>qualified persons. The truth is that
>most key positions are still held
>and filled by white males.

Agree it is very difficult, but action has to be taken the previous situation was also unacceptable. It is not a great place for a white male if you want a traditional career in a large company.

My plan has been to start my own business we sell tours to overseas clients direct over the internet.

At the moment I can’t see how we can be caught by affirmative action, we are encouraging visitors to spend there Dollars, Euro’s and Pounds in South Africa, which benefits all of us.

I may be a little ignirant to the REAL situation in South Africa but here is my opinion:

I am a born and raised South African from Jo'burg. I live in the US against my own personal preference. My father felt it was best for us to leave at the end of 95 when I was 15. I had no choice but to leave.

I am now 24 and have a degree in Chem. Eng. and 2 years work experience so I am finally feeling like maybe I am independant enough to at least consider my options of moving back one day.

My heart aches every day I wake up longing to be back in a country that I love more than anything.

True, things have deteriorated but seem to have improved. The Rand has gained strength and may not be as strong as it once was a little over a decade but at least is not 10 - 1 to the dollar any more.

Has anyone posting these messages ever been to Harlem? I am not sure if you are aware that Harlem is in Manhatten New York. Harlem is extremely dangerous, has gangs and drugs and killings everywhere and yet Manhatten is supposed to be paradise for the rich and famous in New York. Get my point!

Anyway, I would love to consider my options for moving back so if anyone has advice please help!

Dear Springbokke.
I note your reservations regarding return.However as you say there is always potential violence in any Country you may choose to live.
Personally I have no problem with SA.In the main I visit Durban .I together with my dear Nephew
Louis "Lunchbox" Phillippe organise Skinny
Dipping Functions periodically-by day and night.There have never been any problems.
We have had some back- up with the "Gentle Enforcement" Team of Abiola.
If you are interested in Skinny Dipping we would love you to join with us.The next Function is to be organised fairly early in the New Year.
We are presently seeking to persuade one of the "Good and Great" in the Ethekwini Metropolitan
Body to take the lead!
I will be letting all those who may be interested
have full details nearer the time.
Check out:- http://www.geocities.com/ummeli2000/mypage.html!
God Bless,
Madam Primrose Marfona.

Ethekwini is safe and great for swimming!
http://www.geocities.com/ummeli2000/mypage.html
Live it up a little in Durbs.
Weather today was a comfortable 23 degrees C.

My family and I have just returned to Spain from the most wonderful month in SA - J'burg, Durban, Cape Town and finally the Krugar. I want to move tomorrow, but my main concern is we have a 10year old, in private ed and want to carry this on. Have you any advice. I would like to but a B&B or similar, do I have to have a partner to do this like other businesses in SA?
please use the SEND ME AN EMAIL link

My fiance and I are looking into moving from the U.S, South Africa has been one of our choices along with New Zealand. I would just like to know a few facts, like where are some of the safer areas, and just what we should look for before deciding. We are not really sure of how to go about deciding, or really how to start looking, so I would appriciate some help!
Thank you,
AZ

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-06 AT 11:22 PM (GMT)

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-06 AT 01:28 AM (GMT)

Hi there,

I’m also living in the US (FL) but only for the past 5 years.
My wife, kids and I have left S.A. in 2000 due to the high crime rate. I agree with most of the people here on this page, the chances to be raped, killed or highjacked are definitely higher then in almost any other country, but it is a very nice country and if you are a wear of the crime, you can certainly limit your risk.

We are also thinking about moving back there and from all the research I have done and from the places I remember, I believe Phalaborwa (on the kruger park), Knysna (on the Garden Route) and other places around Cape Town are one of the safer places.
I'm currently emailing with peoples from other African Country's and actually learned that Malawi, Namibia and Botswana are safer to live in and also very beautiful.

Thanks

Andre

I left SA over 5 years ago & am currently in the UK with my Swedish partner. We are discussing the option of having a child in 2 years time & are not sure of where we would want to bring the child up.

I feel quite sad at the thought that I will have a child who will not growup near to Table Mountain hikes & spending lazy warm days on the beaches of Cape town, but on the other hand I feel too scared to take the chance of having my baby in the back seat of my highjacked car & finding him/her shot & raped in a field somewhere....fine take all my belongings & kill/rape me but if it's your child?

Can you take that chance? What about getting used to living behind burglar bars? Is it normal that your child cannot play in the park down the road without constant adult supervision?

I'm not sure. For me, just from the safety side, I would probably rather bring the child up in Sweden, but on the other hand Africa is tugging so strongly at my heartstrings... Anyone had a baby there recently? Any ideas?

LAST EDITED ON May-16-06 AT 01:17 PM (GMT)

Why is it that all my family are leaving in absolute fear? Could it be my aunt has be highjacked, 6 times... Last time she had a gun in her mouth and the bloke doing the highjacking saying he is going to rape her?

Why are all the powerstations having problems with power provision? THAT ISN'T NORMAL. We don't have our telly telling us what we can turn on and not!

Why is it that were I was born is now a no go area, Hilbrow? Could it be that there is no policing in SA or the police be too illiterate and uneducated to protect you, the tax payer?

Why is it that farmers are getting killed everyday with no report about it on the news? Actually, nevermind that, why don't murders make National news? Is it that too many people are being killed to bother?

Why is it that there is a brain drain in South Africa as lots of professionals which are assets to the country have left the sinking ship?

Why is it that everyone is comparing South Africa to that other sunken ship Zimbabwe?

Why is it that we have to be tolerant of others who clearly break the law?

Why is it that life means so little that when people break in into your home they have to kill you?

Why is it that South Africa has the second HIGHEST murder rate in the world? Are we trying to better Columbia! Oh yes, that's right, we were number 1 in 96... Let's not even talk about rape and the rape of innocent babies to get rid of HIV/AIDS! Come on, get out of the Dark ages South Africa!

It's no picnic. Call me what you want but the day will come when you have to take your heads out of the sand and realise what is truly going on! I was there, in denial!! I tell you what, when you see SA for what it is, you'll then leave or fight.

Finally, why are South Africans so arrogant and overly proud! For what are we proud about? We've managed to create the worse possible situation for a beautiful country with our old apartheid nonsense and now with affirmative action. The day everyone is actually equal, is the day most of us are waiting for. I for one, wouldn't bother with South Africa, there are much better places in the world.

In South Africa, you will face, Afrikaaner on English rascism. You'll find White on Black Rascism. (The whites like to deny this but they know the truth, they say their silly things to me thinking it's okay because I'm South African but it's not) You get Black on White.

I can tell you more scary true stories if you like!

Just ask!

Hey Sunshine, do you think you are nice, friendly and welcoming? You don't like what I say... Then leave... Nice!

Hi all, just came across this forum at the very start of my research into starting a business in SA. I know nothing - at the moment!! My partner and I had a very pleasant few days in Cape Town in March and thought everyone we met was just great. Incredible when you think how my forefathers had treated their forefathers. Anyway, due to various factors I am now thinking that I am fed up working for someone else and want to start my own business. This needs to be in a land of opportunity where honest endeavour in a business that serves the not-for-profit-sector, employs local people and genuinely creates a win-win-win for everyone is possible. My difficulty is (and you can't ask this question in a local bar) - can anyone tell me what the general community, establishment and immigration attitude is to gay couples from the UK settling in SA. We would be in the "invest 2.5 million RAND" category. Thanks in advance.

No problem anyone who has 2.5 million rand is more than welcome, quite a lot or paperwork but the development associations are very helpful.

There are many, many people targeting your 2.5 million with lots of great ideas, that have no hope of working.

It is a wonderful country with lots of opportunity but be very careful how you spend your money. Feel free to send me an e mail if you would like additional info.

hello! around a year ago i travelled to South Africa on a rugby tour with my school, it was a life changing experience and since that tour i have not stopped thinking about moving/emigrating to this beautiful country. How easy is it to emigrate and please could you let me know how easy it is as i would love to emigrate. I also would like to know what job opportunities there are with a geography/law degree in the country. If you could get back to me it would me much appreiciated! thank you richard

You best option would be to first get a teaching job, there are plenty of great private schools.

I am sure that would not be difficult.

Did you make some contacts whilst you were here ?

Government schools would be more of a problem.

Then they would need to help you get a work permit for which they would need to prove you have exceptional skills, there is a lot of paperwork and takes some time.

Your big problem would be the pay 1/3 -1/2 of the UK for example.

Once you are here you can look for other opportunities.

Do please come and join us.

I am 40, married with 2 kids; 12 and 6. I have worked across the world in engineering/aid/development. I recently returned from SA after having completed Enduro Africa. I am impressed and inspired !!!! I met a company director in Arusha where I was delivering a paper adn he offered me a post !!!!! What is worse, is my wife says so what and why not. GULP.

We are adventerous, free and free thinking; I have seen bad in the world, but during my 2 weeks in Sa, I saw only good; a country that can do nothing but hope and work hard; I would like me and my family to be a part of that future..........

Are we wise ?

Yes great idea.

The biggest problem here is getting a decent well paid job, seems you have sorted that problem, that should also solve any visa issues

It is a great place to bring children up and the education is great.

I have seen big improvements in the last few years, the World Cup is having an extremely positive effect already.

Same advice as ever come and join us.

I am a young white professional female geologist and am thinking of moving from the UK to South Africa to live.
I currently work in another part of africa as a geologist but as based in the UK for my leave. I'm going to start by visiting south africa a few times before i make any decisions, but essentially i would be looking to live there whilst working abroad, similar to now, except spend my leave in SA. Is this possible? Surely it would be favorable as i wouldn't be taking any jobs away from the country, whilst at the same time investing foreign money. What do you think?

Hi Colin i have read a lot of what you put but we are still not to sure on what to do is work a realy big problem as we will only have about 20k uk pounds to comeover with we are thinking of vanderbijlpark as my wife was born there but came to uk when she was 7 she has got the book of life and SA birth cert we want to rent a property and hopefully buy when i find a job i do at moment have my own bussiness here in comuications computer networks and would love to know where to get started any sugestions

My husband is a nuclear engineer and we are considering coming down to the south african nuclear industry. I am concerned about schooling. Will the kids 5 and 7 have to learn afrikans before they understand school or is school taught in english?
We think he is looking at a job at the power station near Capetown. Are the issues described with crime etc common here.

Hi Rachel

Cape Town would be a great city to live in, yes there is crime but no where near as bad is at is made out.

I have a son of 14 and a daughter who is 5, one of the reasons we are still here is because the education is so good.

You have to choose and Afrikaans schools, most schools use English and teach Afrikaans as a second language, rather like we had to learn French at school in England, you have to pass to get your Matric when you are 18, no one takes it very seriously and a miserable d grade is sufficient.

Children start to learn it at the age of 10 or 11.

Hi Colin

I was heartend to read your views on South Africa i am hoping to emigrat within the next year with my young daughter.

I am moving to be with my boyfriend who has recently returned home to South Africa after a long period here in the UK. I am at a loss as to which Visa i should be applying for i am planning to invest in a business with my boyfriend and his brother doe that mean i need to apply for a business Visa or just a work Visa?

I have visited Africa and love it i have seen all the aspects of how people live from the rich through to the very poorest. I have found the people with little or nothing more giving than those with a lot. The values of most the south african people are one i would want my child to live with.

I am South African and after long debate and consideration have decided to leave the country.

I think when people come here on holiday they get a different view of the country. I suggest that you follow the news for a few weeks on this link before making your final decision on moving here:

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Home/0,,2-7,00.html

It will give you an idea of what goes on here on a daily basis. If you are white, think twice. Affirmative Action and Black Empowerment Equity are no longer the only threats to your existence. A new Expropriation law will be passed in July - read this if you want to know more:

http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=89813&sn=Detail

I am sad that it has come to emigration. I loved this country and I was very happy here. Unfortunately I cannot live in fear 27/7 and I would like to offer my children a better quality of life.

The past 14 years have proved to me that things are going to get a lot worse before it will get any better and one only has to look at Zimbabwe to know what is on the agenda for South Africa.

My responce to the previous writer wanting to leave SA. He is puuting it very mildly. Being born in SA and at the age of 42 I am also packing and leaving. I give SA max 5yrs to be the new SA ZIM. Some South Africans will say that it is not so bad, they must be on sleeping tablets, watching an e-news @ 19h05 a financial advicer said despite the request to tighten belts we must now sell our belts for money.they don't see any improvment before late 2010.Food prices rocketed with +- 38% Fuel price is crazy.I am an Architect and my sector has hit rock bottom, a council that would normally process 14-18 plans per day(submisions) are down to 2 per week. In parow Cape Town 10 estate agents has already closed their doors.I give these points as I am talking facts not hear say.As much as I LOVED the country It has become a S--I hole.Please re-think if you want to come to this country.Only very hard-up people would consider this.

Dear small

So you want to run? Where to? Fuel price is a global issue - it's expensive everywhere. Property sector is having a hard time all over the world - we actually have it mild here. Our banks and government have done a super job to keep credit in control. SA government will be spending billions on infrastructure here in the next 5 years. Money from investors will follow. "Late 2010" my dear that is two years away. I cannot help you if you overspend on your credit card. Then run before they reposses your stuff. JAKES

Jake, this is not about who is right and who is wrong, the facts are clear, just do your homework and not just on inflation but also on crime, which is the biggest issue.
I currently live in Florida and yes sure fuel prices are higher and things are more expensive, but you won’t be hit as hard as in SA. I have lived on three different continents and I’m about to move to the fourth. This is my way of travelling the world together with my family and I can tell you every other continent was financially easier and the crime (especially violent crime) was not even a fraction of what SA is experiencing…man huge difference.
I was born in Rhodesia and look at that place now. I have to say SA was the place I thought I could grow old, but then it started hitting every person around me with incidents like robberies, hijacking, rape and murder and when my first daughter came along I decided that I will not risk our lives just to go through a struggle that could take a lifetime, so we moved. I can understand that if you were born and raised in SA that you want to try and get through this rough time, but the question is, when is it too late, once a family member gets raped or killed?

Hi Simbi

I was born in Cape Town area and lived here all of my life. I am 32 and have a professional career in finance. I have a wife and 2 kids and a big family. We live modest lifestyles in the northen suburbs and family is very important to us. So we will never move out of Cape Town. Although my house was burgled a few years ago, not me or any of my friends or family members was ever exposed to violent crime. Maybe we are lucky. In our area there are excellent public schools and all the facilities we need. On weekends we take a drive to the beach or to the beautifull winelands area. I have travelled overseas a couple of times for holidays, but I don't want to stay there. SA is my home and we will make it work here. And there are many people (of all races) here that feel the same way.

Jakes,

This is very nice to hear, I haven’t heard good news since I left in 2000 and I’m communicating with a lot of friend in SA. Most of them live in Kwazulu Natal and more and more are leaving, maybe Cape Town is better, at least for now.
I think what you do is brave and there should probably be more like you.
I just hope it doesn’t get worse; otherwise even you will be forced to leave one day.