Emigration to South Africa-Look before you leap!

To all contemplating emigrating to South Africa
my informed advice is to visit the country first,have a good look around and then take a final decision.
It is undoubtedly a beautiful Country.But bear in mind some of the following points:-
(l) The crime rate in many parts of South Africa
has escalated alarmimgly over the past few years.
Murders,Rapes.Robberies (including carjackings in
which the victims vehicle is taken and in some cases the victim is killed)are regular occurences.
In particular the beachfront in Durban and even the centre of the City has become a "danger Zone"
in which crime is rife.
So much so that many of the citizens who previously lived in those areas have moved into the suburbs which are still relatively safe.Also
there is a growing development of exclusive self-
contained "Estates" where the houses are contained
within high security fences with instant response
armed guards available.These areas are essentially self-contained with shopping malls and golf courses.These are O.K. for the present-but do you seriously want to live in a "prison" even if it takes the form of a gilded cage????

(2) The ANC Government has introduced legislation to promote the policies of Affirmative Action.
In other words persons categorised as "disadvantaged" are given preference regarding Job applications-even though they may not be the
best qualified to do the job.
This cannot make for a sound economy.The rand is
currently a very weak unit of currency as it is.

(3) The gap between the very poor and the (obscenely) rich grows wider by the day,
The Government despite 10 years of ANC Rule have
failed to deliver fully on their initial undertakings to provide proper housing and associated utilities to the mass of the population who still live in dire poverty.Poverty is no doubt a major factor in the proliferation of crime.

(4) H.I.V/Aids has become a serious problem in
South Africa-this saps the well-being of masses of
people leading to a miserable and premature death.

(5) Road safety is questionable The death toll caused by road carnage is frightening.Many cars are unlicensed and non-roadworthy.Some Taxis are
particularly "lethal" in this context.

(6)It is reported that countless persons from other African States have headed for the "greener pastures" of South Africa.Whether these persons
have residence permits may be debatable.Some
claim to be refugees.The question to be asked is are they genuine refugees?
South Africa has such a wide border that with the best will in the world it is almost impossible to
control it fully.
The influx of "foreign" Africans is reported to cause resentment amongst indigenous South Africans as this deprives them of job opportunities when the newcomers get the jobs.

(7) "Land Grabs" do not seem to be a current issue
although there have been attacks on a number of farms -not quite yet the mirror image of Zimbabwe.
Also there has been some growing concern that
"foreigners" are coming to South Africa and buying up much of the property -to the detriment of local people.

(8 If you have young children check out the quality of the available Educational facilities.
These are reported to be very variable.

Although it is impossible to predict the long term
future of South Africa all responsible parents
should ask themselves whether there will be the likelihood of a positive future for their children there.That I suggest should be one of the
principal "Acid tests" to be applied.

I'm an American thinking of moving to South Africa. Noting that all place have bits of both heaven and hell, I have thought of moving over, starting a tourism business and contributing something to South Africa.
Does the government/ANC encourage emigration? I have researched New Zealand and while they encourage degree holders to move there, they make the process Byzantine and costly. Is Pretoria any better at this?

Cheers,
Tony

Hi, Cassandra, I am writing from South America. I am travelling to SA next november, for just about a week, invited by an european foundation.
I have to admit I don't know much about South Africa, so I was wondering if you would write to me to let me know about the weather, the money exchange and the best and safest ways to visit it. I have been doing my homework at Internet and I have found it to be, in fact, a very beautiful place, so I would like to have an idea of how to seize my time there.
I will be in an specific town, but I think I can take a few days to travel to another areas of the country, so i have been thinking about Johannesburg and Soweto. ¿What do you think?
Anyway, thanks for tour time.

Sincerely,
W.

I have to say Cassandra, you send out a very bleak image of a beautiful country with bucket loads of potential! You seem to forget that not all areas are high in murders etc and that south africa is one of the most exciting and attractive places to live. The people are very friendly, the culure is rich, food good and lifestyle desirable. Every country has its bad points but we try not to focus on them all of the time.

I moved to South Africa from the U.K. 9 years ago and South Africa is a great place to live.

The education is excellent my son is 11 years old and in a Private School it has excellent facilities and there are 19 in his class, he is receiving a far better education than he would in the U.K. the cost is 2000 Rand per month.

Crime, HIV and so on are a problem but we live in an ordinary house with no fences and have no big issues.

Health care is also first class much better than the U.K.

Unemployment is a big problem 60 per cent in Port Elizabeth, this increase to 80 per cent in the Townships.

We started a tour business to show overseas people what a wonderful country it is. Our township tour are particularly well received and overseas visitors are always impressed to see the improvements that have been made in the past few years.

To obtain a residency permit to start a business is quite straightforward it requires a business plan approved by a Chartered Accountant we used KPMG and a plan to invest 2.5 million rand in the country which can include your house. One of the Government agencies will then assist with the formalities in our case the Eastern Cape Development Corporation who were excellent.

Please come and join us the more people that are prepared to invest and assist in the marketing of the country the quicker it will improve.

In response to road safety buy a Land Rover

Hello all, I have travelled most of Africa, including Indian and Atalantic Coasts, Central and North Africa - incidentally I was born in Johannesburg.

I have lived in the UK for 16 Years and I'm moving back in February. The answer to all your questions is 'do your homework'. Whatever Countryyou are moving to be aware of all the financial, social and cultural issues. Once you are aware you are better equipped to make an 'informed ecision'. Knowing all the risks is safer for you and your family. Then you can feel comfortable whilst you enjoy all the benefits. Simple logic. The one thing I will recommend is to purchase currency 'ahead of schedule'. If you dont know what I'm talking about then you havent even begun to do your homework. You are moving there for a reason, justify. Good luck to all and see you on the East Coast.

Cassandra's posting over emphasis and exagerates the crime situation in SA. The information about land grabs in South Africa is also very inaccurate and does not hold much truth. Also the information about Affirmative Action is very inaccurate as it does not encourage un skilled or less qualified persons to obtain jobs in the placeof qualified persons. The truth is that most key positions are still held and filled by white males.

The truth is that South Africa is a great country and it holds a lot of opportunity for all its citizens and residents.

Yster, Please tell me why South Africa has such a high crime rate compared to the rest of the world. If it is so high surely living there will expose yourself to the high stats.

I think Cassandra's posting was very informative. All her points are real issues in South Africa.

The truth with affirmative action is that the best person does not always get the job and this happens most of the the time.

Hello,
I am researching about Canada and South Africa. I am actually thinking about moving to either one of them. The trouble is i am confused and would love to hear your informed advice. Please feel free to send me a mail and tell me what you know about either of the Countries. Thanks. Happy New Year

Read Cassandra's informed and realistic entry (above).Unless you have a death wish, go to Canada!

I thought Canada was rather a cold place to live.

South Africa is wonderful, great weather great people and an excellent place to live.

We moved here 10 years ago from the U.K. and the improvements are easy to see, there has been a huge provision of houses, 90 % of the population has access to clean water, a huge improvement.

The Government is stable and sensible and the economy is improving, sales of new cars are at record levels.

The Eastern Cape where I live is surrounded by wonderful Game Reserves all opened within the last 10 years, encouraging tourists to visit and providing much needed employment.

There are problems here of course unemployment being one of the biggest issues 60% in Port Elizabeth which rises to 80% in the Townships.

We need people to come and join us to help us provide more jobs and allow this wonderful country grow and improve further.

Does anyone know what are the requirements for emigrating if you are married to a south african citizen.

My girlfriend and I are considering moving there (she is SA citizen on a UK student visa)in a few years time once we are settled properly, and once we are there starting a business up.

Is the whole process a lot easier if you can get in the backdoor as it were?

Hi there,

I have been reading some of the comments on this forum about emigrating, buying houses and living in SA with interest. I am interested in emigrating over to SA and would like to know who you would recommend to help in the emigration process? I understand that there are emigration consultants that will help with the process of moving there.

Also I have been told that there are a number of ways to get your money over there. I have spoken to my bank who seem to be offering a poor exchange rate and I have been told that there are specific currnecy brokers who can help.

Does anyone have any experience of these?

Thanks

Marc

To get a residence permit I know of five options.

1. Have a skill not available in South Africa use it to get a job offer and get the employer to motivate the application.

2. Invest more than 2.5 million rand and start your own business. The 2.5 can include the value of a house you purchase.

3. Have an income of more than 20,000 rand and retire, this can be less if you buy a house, but you are not supposed to work..

4. Marry a South African.

5. Bribe someone.

There are agents available that probably know how to handle 4 and 5.

To want to move you are probably in 1-3 category so it is not so difficult. We have the Eastern Cape Development Corporation in our area and they will help for free.

To get cash into South Africa is really easy. Open a South African bank account lots of paper but not difficult. Write a cheque from an overseas bank account and pay it in, or send via the internet. Easy.

Worth all the effort South Africa is great

I've been dreaming of coming to South Africa for years (10 years to be exact). I first came to SA to document SA's first democratic election and I've been in love with the country ever since. I'm also already well versed in the views of South Africa as portrayed by Cassandra, which are true but alas do not paint a FULL PICTURE. South Africa can be a great place to live and it can also be a BITCH. That's Life!

Anyway I'm black, british professional male (digital photography) and married to another black british professional female (corporate journalism) and we would love to set-up a business (Public Relations, Corporate Communications) in South Africa. For the last few years all I've been hearing is that people like me and my wife will NOT be welcomed in South Africa by the Home Affairs Department (and others) and we'd be better advised looking for opportunities else where. Is this STILL the case? PS: By the sound of theing I really like what's going on in PE, especially those nice people making AC Cobra's! What a way to make a living!

Hi JC.
People like you and your wife would contribute a great deal to the development of South Africa.
However you are no doubt aware that despite the great strides made since 1994 the majority of the indigenous black population have not benefitted economically.A few have made small fortunes.
As a result of the widespread poverty there is an escalating scale of crime which tends to destabilise the country.
In my view successful black immigrants to South Africa can engender a great deal of resentment
among the unemployed and impoverished black population of South Africa.
They see the chances of employment diminishing by the day-assuming they are actively searching for work-when newcomers arrive and achieve success-fuelling the resentment.
In the long term you probably would do a lot better in South Africa.
Climate is far better than in the U.K.
The U.K. is virtually on its last legs with the present "non-government".
It is being flooded with immigrants-legal and illegal- who are only hell-bent on bleeding the Country dry by claiming benefits at the tax-payers
expense-with no intention whatsoever of getting
work.
The decision is yours-I wish you and your wife all the best!
Big Boy Freddy "Mugu" Majola
"Mugu" by name but not "Mugu" by nature!

This is not the country I live in.

South Africa is a land of opportunity.

People that can improve the country are desperately needed and encouraged to join us.

It is a wonderful country with a great future.

Come and join us.

Yo Big Boy Freddy and Colin,

Thank you for your kind support and encouragement. My wife thanks you guys too. One day we will all met and have a lamb braai on US.

I've been to South Africa several times and hand on my heart I've never encounter any resentment from my black South African brothers and sisters. In fact "they" both black and white South Africans tend to view me as a bridge to their two very differnt worlds. I have no problems crossing this divide and making connections. Alas this does not apply to South Africa's (mostly illegal), newly arrived African immigrants, especially those from Nigeria and Zimbabwe. I seem to rub these people up the wrong way, as they do me. Now I don't want to be controversial but these people really don't have any right to be in South Africa. Why! Well by what I can see most of those new arrivals have come to South Africa with the sole intention of doing to SA what they have already done to their home countries. This MUST not be allowed to happen. My critism of black (as well as white) Zimbabweians is even harsher. They should go back home and sort things out, instead of living the life of Reilly at the South African tax payers expense.JC

Cassandra is not pessimistic - in fact, she is almost too positive about the situation in SA.

If you're stinking rich - you can live an OK life here. You can send your children to the best private schools; be admitted to private hospitals; you can drive a bullet-proof car; you can live in an electric-fenced complex with armed response; and you still have plenty money for entertainment.

However that is the life of a limited few. To afford above lifestyle, you would need to earn in excess of R50 000 per month (take into account that the government will take 42% of that for tax). (For salary comparison: A teacher earns about R5000 per month, an IT professional with 10 years experience can earn about R25000. A private school costs about R4000 per month per child. The cheapest house you can find in a "safe" area (but without the security) is about R8000 per month. Food for a family of 4 costs about R3000 a month. In a city like Cape Town, petrol can cost about R2000 a month. And that's not counting insurance, medical aid, clothing, etc. You do the math.)

For the rest of us - we live in fear. Government schools are riddled with gangs (children as young as 8 using drugs and guns) and very low academic standard; carjackings, break-ins, robberies and rapes happen so frequently that most of them don't even make news; affirmative action is very real - my husband applied for so many jobs, and the answer is always "Sorry, this is an affirmative action job" (so how on earth will my two sons ever get a job in SA?); and then there's the hate: there is so much hate in the country and you see it in so many people's eyes - and it's really scary! Life is meaningless here - people murder just for 1 cigarette, or to use your body parts for medicine etc. The roads are such a mess because of taxis that are unroadworthy and drive soooooo badly - and you're scared to hoot, because you might just get shot, or beaten with a baseball bat (seriously). And don't get me started on the AIDS issue!

I can't wait to finally scrape together enough money to emigrate.

I cannot believe what I am reading!! This is such an utter over exaggeration of the state of south africa. Yes there are gangs as there are in the us and uk. Yes there are murders as there are in every country in the world but if everyone lived in fear no-one would do anything especially if that fear is unfounded.

As a young white female I have experienced several aspects of south african life. I lived with a coloured family for 7 months and was truly accepted into their family and treated as one of the family. I attended Harold Cressy High school for part of the time I was there and was never treated differently from anyone else. The family I lived with didn't live inside an electric fence of have guns. They were a normal family and I love them all dearly. I never once had any problems. I lived with a white lady too for a short time which was different but was also very nice.

One of the best experiences of my life was when I lived for some time with a family in Guguletu, Cape town. I used to walk around to my friends house with the girls I lived with and although people were surprised to see a white girl walking around they were all extremely friendly and nice to me and stopped to talk to me. I constantly had people coming and saying thank-you for coming to stay in their community because they get such bad press and no-one wants to visit. I was given a xhosa name by the family and have never in my life experienced such community spirit. These poeple are loving warm caring human beings not the mad, hateful race that you are trying to depict.

I simply cannot understand your logic. I come from a very small community in scotland and it has it's fair share of problems to with muggings and thefts etc. If you let the small problems in life affect you too much you cannot appreciate the world for the beautiful exciting place that it is. I have a thirst for meeting people from different counties and experiencing the ways people live and I'll never feel too scared to come back to south africa.

And as for R3000 a month on food, what do you eat?!?!?!?!

South Africa is a great place to live of course there are problems it is part of the world’s poorest continent.

Education, health care has to be paid for and is expensive , the wonderful weather is free.

Before you emigrate here you have to work out where your money will come from, which is like moving anywhere else in the world.

Wages here are ½ t0 1/3 of the level in the U.K. so getting a job will not help much.

Many of us live in South Africa part time and earn our livings elsewhere and then it is a truly wonderful place to live.

There are many, many people moving here wondering what all the fuss about problems is all about.

Let's not go all overboard now! South Africa is beautiful place and all of it's people are exceptional in their warmth and kindness. But anywhere, where you find beauty so will you find it's opposite...ugliness and inhumanity. Two weeks ago I heard a story (via Radio 702 in the internet) about a bloke from Pretoria who had repeatedly raped his daughters, throughout their young lives. A true sicko if ever there was one but the sad fact is that this can and does happen all over the world, all the time. What SA has to do is to confront all of it's demons and defeat them...one by one. Looking at the world through rose tinted glasses, helps no one. JC

Sorry I have lost the thread.

What has the sick story in Pretoria got to do with some one coming to live in South Africa.

There are some very very sad things happen in the U.K.

That was my point ......Colin. Bad things happen all over the world. The real question should be, how as a society we deal with it. Don't get me wrong but nothing is going to stop me from coming to South Africa, not hell or high water but alas it will stop many and that's something we should all be concerned about. John

Desperate to leave South Africa, well we would be better off without people like you, I don't know how your calculator works but your figures are all wrong. You need to change your attitude and start attracting more positive influences in your life. We are not rich, our kids go to a Government school and we live a lovely life with many friends and outdoor hobbies. R50 000 would buy you a very indulgent lifestyle which is above the norm, but many who are not willing to make an effort begrudge the people who are prepared to work and as Gary Player once said when he got a hole in one and a comment was passed "you were lucky" his response was "it's funny, but the more I practice the luckier I get". So the people who work harder and smarter deserve all they have! You also choose the area you live in and the way your children turn out - if they have a well adjusted, loving home and good principals, they will always choose the better options. The hate you see in people's eys is a reflection of your own soul and views on humanity. I hope when you leave this country you don't polute your chosen country of residence with your negativity and please don't mention you are South African.

To all prospective immigrants, welcome, we will show you the real life in SA. Remember - the potential in any Country is unlimited if you come with the right attitude!! We look forward to welcoming you.

After almost 2.5 years in Boston, USA I can truly say that my heart will always be in Africa. If you only focus on the negative things - that is all you will see (as Cassandra and Jay) clearly indicates. I spent Christmas04 in SA (ahhh sun and sea and braaivleis!)and its not so gloomy - SA's economy is doing very well, in fact most of our economic indicators (including our currency) is good. South Africans have HEART! We care about our country and its place in the world. We care about all our people - especially the poor and previously disadvantaged. We care about our natural environment - we believe in dialogue between nations not war! We also know how to laugh at ourselves and live our best lives. Our family has lived in Europe and the USA - and we will be returning within the next year to SA- it is our home and it is our people. Africa is not for "sissies". It's tough, nothing will be handed to you (especially if you're white) - however if you can make it in Africa you can make it anywhere. For the moaners and groaners "shape up or shut up!" - and Colin - good on ya mate! - for defending your adoptive country so persistently! We need more people like you!

thankyou to those providing and contributing to this forum, it certainly has made my decision a lot easier. I am a 39yo Australian and met my now wife Katerina about 6 years ago in Melbourne, Australia (Oz). Katerina had migrated to Oz with her family from SA in early 1998. The family migrated to Oz due to conditions in SA at the time and to give the family a safe place to live and bring up the children. The family had lived in SA for 40+ years. The family bought a hotel in Oz and then I met Katerina late 1998. In 2002 Katerina and I married.

Unfortunately the family found doing business in Oz very tough compared to SA. Our taxes are higher, our workplace employment conditions tougher, much higher wage costs and general cost of living requirements all factored on them and in the end the family sold up and took the big step and moved back to Johburg SA in 2002. Katerina stayed in Oz with me.

The family has since flourished in SA after buying a business and rebuilt their lives and lifestyle they were accustomed to. They of course missed their daughter Katerina dearly but Katerina knew I had no intentions of ever leaving Australia and accepted that, especially as I was your typical foreigner with a safe, comfortable life in my own country and had heard so much about crime, poverty, being a minority and white etc in SA.

In 2004 we got pregnant and is amazing how a little baby can make you rethink your whole life. (we are actually due next week

I suddenly found myself thinking about family. My own family unfortunately very disfunctional and spread all across Oz, with none in Melbourne. I wanted to give bubs a "close family" upbringing with grandparents etc. My problem was those that could give us that were in SA. I started seriously researching....

After months of reading and researching SA, I surprised Katerina at Xmas 2004 and asked her if she would consider moving back to SA. Well you could imagine the joy as she had thought I'd never ever leave safe ol' Oz. We then asked her parents in Johburg what they thought...and if it really was safe and economically viable etc...well the future grandparents were overwhelmed with joy and explained that since they moved back to SA that things were fantastic, business was booming and there was nothing (bar the obvious precautions) to worry about.

So the decision was set and over the last 3 months we have been selling up and we will be in SA in July, once bubs is born and old enough to travel. My fear has slowly turned into excitement, and as my wife has lived in SA all her life (bar the last 6 years) she has been preparing me on living in SA, the good, the bad and ugly and the beatiful. (i actually even listen to 702 radio over the internet now when i on the PC

We are no strangers to travel, for our honeymoon we back packed Europe for 6 months. That is what opened my eyes to the world..

Yes I know there is high crime in SA...but there was a carjacking in Melbourne last week, we also have a pretty big drug gangland war happening at the moment with i think 26 murdered from this war over the last few years..and this is safe ol' Melbourne. Any big city has crime, but I do understand the difference in SA it can be very violent random crime...but it is getting better from what I've researched. I accept that risk and that there are ways to minimise it happening to your family. Also, did you know Washington USA has a 50% higher crime rate than Johburg?? You only ever hear the bad from the news...very rarely will all the good stuff make the headlines.

Financially, after selling our assets and one of our businesses here we'll be able to buy a business in SA. Katerina's father assures me that it would only take 2-3 years to get to the same position in SA as it would take 10+ years in Australia. Mainly due to better taxes in SA as well as lower and more flexible employment costs etc (in Australia I currently pay 50c in the $1 tax due to my supposidly high tax bracket). We have another small self running business that we will keep in Oz...just in case I need a backstop and to produce some additional foriegn $$ income.

Probably the last thing is that I think I can make a difference in SA, to try and help SA reach its potential. In Oz I feel I can not make much of a difference here, just plod along with life. In SA I would like to help and be part of the process of change. I feel I have skills to offer and charitable ideas to pursue. I would like to see, and help in the change, that by the time my children are old enough that SA is well on the way to be as enticing to live in as foriegners find Oz to be.

Didn't mean it to be such a long post, but I want to give back some thoughts in repayment of the comfort and info this site has helped provide me. Thanks and cheers
Rob

Excellent decision, the prospects in South Africa are very exciting.

However be extremely careful about the business you buy, there are lots of people out there targeting foreigners with hard currency,also be very wary of the banks and take great care before signing any sureties.

thanks Colin for the advice and appreciate. Katerina's family runs a successful business already and we are going to buy another one in the same industry, probably in partnership with Katerina's father, so all should be pretty straight forward. If it wasn't for the family connection there, this whole venture would be a lot scarier and doubtful. I am looking forward to the new start...